Updated. The NY Times The Secret Price of Pets was rather eye-opening. We definitely spent a lot of money near the end of our last dog’s life, but Neuticles? Cosmetic surgery? Meanwhile, the cost of flea medication has dropped for us from $10 a month to 67 cents a month over the last decade of dog ownership. That’s over $200 a year in savings for two dogs as compared to buying it retail. We have dogs so that is what I’m using for my numbers, but the same strategy would work for cats.
There are many options for flea prevention today, but Frontline Plus is still quite popular. It used to be that you would buy it from your vet and it would cost close to $15 per monthly dose. These days, I’m guessing most people use Amazon or Costco since you don’t need a prescription. In addition, the patent for the main active ingredient in Frontline (fipronil) has been expired since 2011. Generic brands now include Sentry FiproGuard Plus and PetArmor Plus.
Price comparisons. Here’s an example of the cost comparison for their “Orange box” meant for small dogs (22 lbs and under). Prices taken January 2019.
| Store | Cost (w/ shipping) | Cost per 0.67 ml dose |
| Frontline Plus Orange at Chewy.com | $63.99 for 6-pack | $10.66 |
| Frontline Plus Orange at Amazon.com | $63.99 for 6-pack | $10.66 |
| Frontline Plus Orange at eBay | $49 for 6-pack | $8.17 |
| PetArmor Plus 22 lb at Amazon.com | $39.95 for 6-pack | $6.65 |
Buying a larger dose and splitting it yourself. I got this idea originally from eBay sellers that were selling the biggest size (Red box) made for dogs up to 132 lb. dogs with with glass vials and syringes for splitting. I’m not sure what happened, but I believe that the manufacturer Merial pressured eBay and/or their authorized sellers to stop the sale of such kits. I don’t see any such kits available for sale any longer. You can simply buy amber glass vials with droppers on Amazon yourself for under $10 upfront.
I still believe the DIY method can be efffective and safe if done properly. I’ve seen articles from licensed vets and also multiple reader comments saying their own vet approves this practice. Pet shelters and rescues also commonly do this to stretch their limited resources.
More accurate dosing for your pet. By default, Merial categorizes dogs into four broad categories: 0-22 lbs, 23-44 lbs, 45-88 lbs, and 89-132 lbs. This corresponds to vial sizes of 0.67 ml, 1.34 ml, 2.68 ml, and 4.02 ml respectively. I don’t know about you, but I see a pretty big gap between 45 and 88 pounds.
They have to make sure even the biggest dogs in the range are adequately dosed, so if you divide the vial size by the largest size for each category in pounds, you get 0.0305 ml per pound every time. So if you have a 25 lb. dog why give them double the dose of a 22 lb. dog? Just give them a bit more (0.76 ml) and you should be fine. Less meds, less waste, less money.
Example DIY savings. For simplicity, I’ll assume you have exactly a 22 lb. dog. Next, assume you buy the biggest size (Red box) made for 89 to 132 lb dogs and split it into the same 0.67 ml doses as the 22b size (Orange box) using a glass vial and plastic syringes. In other words each single 4.02 ml dose will be split into six 0.67 ml doses. Prices taken January 2019.
| Store | Cost (w/ shipping) | Cost per 0.67 ml dose |
| Frontline Plus Red at Chewy.com | $67.99 for 6-pack | $1.89 |
| Frontline Plus Red at Amazon.com | $67.99 for 6-pack | $1.89 |
| Frontline Plus Red at eBay | $53 for 6-pack | $1.47 |
| PetArmor Plus 132 lb at Amazon.com | $36.17 for 6-pack | $1.00 |
Proper precautions. Here are some tips to make sure you split your doses safely and effectively.
- Use protective gloves. You’d ideally want to do this with the official product anyway, so a box of nitrile gloves is a good investment.
- Keep medication away from light and air. Either use a dark, glass vial or keep it an airtight syringe in airtight bag in a dark, cool space. When using a plastic syringe as the applicator, remove any needle! You’re just drizzling the stuff on your dog’s skin surface. You can buy 12 glass vials with droppers for $9 from Amazon. The 0.51 ounce bottles hold about 15 ml. The biggest dose packages are 4 ml. A drop is about 0.05 ml.
- Do not mix and match dog and cat Frontline. The ingredients may differ slightly, which may be quite dangerous or even lethal. The concentrations may differ as well.
- Dose carefully. As with all these flea medications, you can do some trial and error to see what brand and dosage level works for your dog. You might need more or less than indicated for your dog and environment. I would avoid going over the maximum manufacturer recommendation.
Bottom line. Monthly flea & tick medication is an ongoing cost of owning a dog or cat. You can save a significant percentage by splitting up larger doses and buying in bulk (even if you keep shopping at the same store). You can save even more by buying a generic version (see above) with the same active ingredient, just like Advil vs. ibuprofen. For a small dogs, you can get your cost down to $1 per monthly dose per pet.
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Sorry, but I think this is a really stupid gamble. Clearly, you’ve never actually had bugs on your dogs or in your house. Trial and error?? Have you ever tried to get rid of fleas!!??
If you’re not actually buying the right thing, or it’s expired, or it’s diluted, or it’s questionable from Mexico, it will cost you a lot of money.
It will cost a lot more than $10 to clean up that mess, and your dog will suffer.
It’s not a stupid gamble. I’ve been using this system for 3 years, not a flea to be found on my dogs. Lastly, Frontline does not expire. Check things out before running your mouth.
Thank you. It works.
I put unused Frontline liquid in tight eye dropper until next use.
I get 5 apps out if one $18 large ville for my 13lb chihuahuas.
Again, thx
If one reads and researches the dosage for your dog’s weight, there is nothing wrong with this method. One has to be careful, YES. To save money, my dog’s Vet knew I was broke. She suggested that I buy the X-tra large K9 Advantix II for DOGS ONLY! My dog weighs 13 lb.. I break it down by doing my homework, from several sources. It works for me, saves me a lot of money, while keeping my precious one on a consistent schedule. I buy a year’s worth. The previous comment about sealing tightly, is a MUST.
How much do you put on? .4ml
I have been using this method for saving money on flea medication for years — at least 15 and probably more. As soon as I discovered the manufacturer used the exact same medicine in the exact same strength in every size they sold, I decided to buy the biggest size available and divide it up. The first thing I did was do the math to find out the minimum amount each dog supposedly required to kill the fleas, ticks, eggs etc and then added 5 to 10 lbs to it to be on the safe side. I knew the extra amount wouldn’t harm my dogs, because there’s a large weight spread printed on the package so you know what dosage the medicine is safe to give your dog. My pharmacist gave me several of the appropriate size needles (without the actual needle) that was marked with the different dosages I would need. It was easy to part my dogs’ fur so that I could apply it directly to the skin and root of the fur. I used an empty bottle similar to the ones used for babies’ liquid Tylenol or baby liquid vitamin. There is no risk for doing this at all as long as you have used the medicine on your dogs previously with no problem. If you have several small or medium sized dogs, this will save you a lot of money. Just adjust the dosage as needed for the best results but using the least amount of medicine. You may have to use more medicine than someone else because your fleas, etc may be harder to kill. But I can almost 100% guarantee you will save money. Just be sure that the bottles all contain the same medicine. I’ve never run into one that didn’t but it’s always a good idea to double check and never assume.
me to,I have never had a bad experience with this method.
I absolutely agree 100% with everything you just said. I will take it one step further. I purchase the extra large dog and divide it up for a colony of semi-feral cats that I take care of on my property. After getting them trapped, spayed, and neutered my vet knew I was limited on cash and recommended this method. All 9 cats, 6 female, 3 males, thank my vet everyday and so do I. Your instructions are spot on. If everyone who wants to try this, follows them to the letter, they should be fine.
My vet actually told me about this and gave me a syringe to administer to my dog.
My vet did, too! 🙂
Mine too. I’m in Australia and I have little dogs and cats which I’ve been treating with the same solution by giving each little dog ( one is 6kg and the other is 3.5kg) 0.7mls and the cats ( both range between 5-6kgs) 0.68mls. Frontline plus use to say for both dogs and cats on the same package but over the past few yrs they changed it to dogs or cats only. My vet and about 3 other vets told me that the solution is the same just the packaging changed to dog only and cat only. The vet gave me the ratios and I’m still using the same frontline plus now dog only on both my cats and dogs and it works perfectly. I have x1 cat & x1 dog severely allergic to fleas so this is something I’ve not done lightly and they have NEVER had fleas since and the cats have NEVER had any reaction to the “dog” frontline plus. I would never do anything to endanger my animals and I just wanted others to know this works.
I worked at a kennel at one time in my life and the operator had several dogs, that’s when the advantage products were fairly new and expensive. She would buy the large dog size and use a little syringe (without needle) and get the correct dosage and apply to each dog. I think it is the Adantage II product has the same ingredients as for dogs and cats, so for a multi-animal family you can use the large dog size for everyone and still have some left over. If you do an internet search, there are some charts that show how much you can use for each animal depending on weight. I just spoke with a friend and she has six cats and buys one size and puts a dose for each cat and is paying $100/month. I told her why doesn’t she just use the advantage method and pay less than $100 per year. Do some research on the internet and you will find a lot of people are doing this especially multi-animal households.
i HAVE FRONTLINE FOR DOGS 22 LBS AND UP AND i HAVE A DOG THAT WEIGHS FIVE LBS OR SO i ONLY HAVE THE FRONTLINE IN THE SINGLE VILES, i USED HALF ON HER cAN i SAVE THE OTHER HALF FOR THE FOLLOWING MONTH???
Yes, you can. But it must be sealed in an airtight container or vial.
Totally agree – hardly a gamble at all, much less stupid. On the contrary, it’s wise. Unfortunately, some folks (all due respect) simply don’t have the capacity or confidence to trust outside what has been dictated to them by (seemingly) informed professionals. So, you buy one of their pre measured vials, cut it open, administer the full amount to your dog, Or, with some simple math and a smaller amount of common sense, split the same amount between 2 dogs, half the size. Oh well, whatever works. If spending a lot more money gives one a sense of comfort, by all means……..
You are very right! I have worked in the vet field all my life ( I’m over 50) and a good vet that cares about your pets more then his pay check will tell you exactly that! The ingredients are the same for all size dogs only the dose is adjusted to meet the wieght.
Helpful post but guess you can only help those willing to help themselves!
How much should I give my 90lbs. dog??? And how much for a 60lb dog??? I’m not understanding all this stuff…I buy a 6 pack each in there weight category…Seeing my big dog is 90lbs. I always wondered if I can just use the frontline 45-88lbs. I’m spending a ton of money buying 1 for over 88lbs and 1 at 45-88 lb for my smaller dog…HELP
Ya, too bad people have to speak out of order. I have a 4lb Yorkie and she gets the .5ml from a syringe to measure it out. This is from a 23-44 lb package.
We can all agree it works, but Just like YOU, people are simply giving their opinions! Mine is, YOU’RE the one running your mouth. You should surrender your pets for adoption and allow them to co-exist with a more pleasant owner. You sound like a complete ass!
dogatemyfinances before you so childishly and in a blaming matter attack others you should speak with a veterinarian. Our vet told us about this 6 years ago after losing our home to fire he knew things were tight financially until our home was rebuilt so he told us about this to help our family and keep our pets safe and secure. He flat out told us that though he sells it in boxed sets he always tells his patients about the practice of how to use it and that it was the exact same medication just in a larger size you were required to break it down to the size you need.
The list is as follows:
Dogs 0 to 10 lbs 0.5ml
Dogs 11-22 pounds – 0.67ml
Dogs 23-44 pounds – 1.34ml
Dogs 45-88 pounds – 2.68ml
Dogs 89-132 pounds – 4.0ml
Please research and/or speak to your vet prior to making false claims about an item not working and calling them names.
Thank you so much for breaking down the dosage for me, I’m horrible at math lol.
Thank you for the dosing info. I have been doing splitting of the XL dog size for my cats and dogs. I have been using the Advantage 11 and it costs me $100.00 for the 6 pack to treat 2 cats and 10 dogs. large dogs and 8 small and one cat up to 10 Lbs and one up to 20 Lbs. I was able to purchase the frontline for about $60.00 with shipping so this will be a savings for me. It used to cost me much much more for the vet trip etc. Babies still go in for a wellness check with the rabies vac but this saves me a ton. Knowing how to split the frontline is a real help. Normally do not need to deal with fleas yearly but took in a stray cat temporarily and even though it was diseased and I kept it isolated it still dropped off a couple hitch hikers. Once again thank you.
Thank you for the doses, now I dont have to go find them!!!
Thank you for this information. I am a single gal with 5 animals and this is a huge help 🙂 Thank you, sincerely 🙂
Suzanne
Thanks for this breakdown. Perhaps you could help me figure out what I need to buy and how long it will last me….? We have 6 dogs under 15 pounds, 1 that is 52 pounds, and one is 63 pounds. If I buy a 3 month supply of the 89lbs+, how long will it last me to dose each of them?
Gaaah….math story problems! The answer is: purple, cuz waffles dont wear hats.
Or 42.
I just did the math. It will last about 2 months for all the dogs. It would be easier to give the exact amount by actually knowing the dogs weight.
I’ve been using this method, as recommended by my veterinarian for years. I have 3 dogs and 4 cats and it can be very expensive treating for fleas and ticks. I buy the extra large dog and my vet told me how to break it down for the dogs and cats. All my dogs are under 22 lbs so I use 0.67ml. For cats, the vet told me to use 0.50ml, unless my cat is large, and two of them are quite large, then I can use about 0.60ml. I’m lucky to have a vet that is not all about the almighty dollar.
I have broke down 89-132 lb.box for all the cats and dogs and never had any problems. Dosage by product and weight are the key to success.Also one animal may have bad reaction to product,if that’s the case ,vet putting it on is no different than if we did. I have been lucky,none of mine had allergic reaction.Front line chart would be different than front line plus,same as advantage is different chart.What I’m trying to find out is how much does kittens that are weened and maybe 6-8 wks . old and maybe 2-4 lbs would get.Does anyone know by own
experience?
You’re really not supposed to give flea treatments to kittens under 12 weeks old; but know what? Kittens under 12 weeks old are especially vulnerable to blood-sucking parasites, and I’ve actually lost babies from fleas! So, to protect the itty bitty kitties, I usually use no more than a drop on each kitten. Thus far, I’ve seen no adverse reactions – and it works.
Thank-You! I was scared and gave too little ,but she is older now ,wont be so…scared .When in doubt ask. I have never had a bad experience, but always so… careful and check my dosage out couple times. Again Thank-You
Darla
Make sure you do the math right for the right stuff. The math is different for Frontline than for K9 Advantix ii as the dosing is different and chemical is different. I alternate the flea treatment between Frontline and Advantix II, as I heard it helps keep fleas and ticks from becoming tolerant of either. Some fleas have been found to become tolerant of Frontline in some regions of the US, from what I’ve heard. So, I do one month Frontline, one month with Advantix. I have been doing the separating of the large dog solution for my small dog, for 7 yrs and never had an issue except for once, when my dog gained 3 pounds and went from 10 lbs to 13. It made a difference. He ended up with 2 ticks. But, whether I had separated it myself or purchased the solution for the 0-10 lb dog, it wouldn’t have mattered, he would have ended up with the ticks regardless because it was the wrong dose for him. I didn’t realize he had gained so much weight. By the following month, I raised his dosage up to the 11-22 lb dog and he hasn’t had a tick or flea since. So, if you happen to have a dog around 10 lbs, word of advice is to use the next size up.
Okay I am horrible with metric conversions…I have a yorkshire terrier so he would be the .67 dose….on an oral medicine syringe, that would be almost at the 7? I know I would NOT give it orally, but topically between his shoulder blades, I just want to do the correct dosage.
Angela S……. You, my dear, ARE an angel!!!? I’ve also done this for years but had a few years gap between my last baby and my new one’s!! Moving several times I’d lost my cheat sheet!!! AND couldn’t remember it for the life of me!!! AND also a great job in straightening out the NASTY commenter above!!!??? Well said sister!!!?? Thanks for breaking it down for ALL of us!! I’da figured it out eventually but your post made it way easier!! They’re the SAME concentrations, just differing AMOUNTS, per dog’s weight!! To me?? THIS method is even MORE accurate than the widely varying weight groups!!!? You’ll probably never see this- as it’s now August 3, 2022 but hope you do!!???????
I buy mine from the foundation that neuters dogs from the state of KY and they use it on all their rescue dogs without issue. Never had a problem or a flea in my house with a German Shepherd and Dachshund
Frontline plus has no expiration date. I have always purchased Frontline plus for
the largest size dog for my 13 year old pekingese and I split it. The extra large dose will keep my baby flea/tick free for well over two years.I have been doing it this way since he was 6 months old.
My vet even recommeded this for me. He sells me the larger vile and gives me the break down of how much to give per poundage of dog. This works. You just do not want to give too much. You can ask your vet how much ml to put on your dog. Been doing this for years and saving major buck. Kudo’s to my vet.
I have worked at a vet hospital and done dog training and boarding for 15 years. I can honestly say every veterinarian I’ve known would agree this is a perfectly effective approach for dosage and cost savings. When your dog goes to a groomer or vet and they apply flea treatment there they do not use single dose applicators – they use bulk liquid and a dosing syringe – and a weight chart. Yes, I have had to get fleas out of my house due to people using a poor flea product on their dog – or as you mentioned – using expired product. There’s no reason measuring the dose yourself would cause the treatment to be ineffective. Your comments are unfounded and inaccurate – not to mention rather offensive.
Really not stupid at all. I spent 15 years on the clinical veterinary staff at the National Zoo. And while not through EBay, this is exactly what we did for our animals, many of which are highly endangered, so we had a constant eye on safety. Calculating basic dosages is not at all complicated if you know how.
I am an off grid home -steader so I have a budget and I would not be able to buy the medication if I did not buy the large dose and split it up .which for me comes to 4.00 per animal compared to 15.00 and animal.You can buy a ml medication syringe for a couple of bucks and just but the frontline for large dogs and just measure it out .I have never had an issue my none of my animals have fleas.If you look at the ratings on ebay sellers you wont have a problem and most of the shops with high ratings are listed first
This system works brilliantly. I have a small horse farm where I keep rescued horses, dogs and cats. I’ve used this for 5 years now with no problem at all. It’s a huge money saver when you have 20+ animals to treat every month.
I have done this for years – my vet was the one who gave me the vial and the syringes.
My own veterinary said to buy the bigger size and do the math. If you do the math there’s absolutely no gamble! I’ve been doing it with the liquid topicals nearly 30 years. Fleas dead, under control, dogs healthy 🙂 Great information. Thank you for taking the time to post it!
I DISAGREE, unless you’re looking to risk killing your dog or cat!!
It’s a money making game for these Companies & veterinarians, they profit for selling the poison to you .. in turn you’re not only killing fleas & ticks but you’re poisoning your treasured pet meaning more trips to the vet= More $$$$ in their pockets!
PLEASE!!! …READ the WARNINGS & do your research,
Search Frontline, frontline plus poisoning, killing pets!
If you truly love your pet find another solution & stop paying your so called trusted vet who insist it’s safe! You’re making them rich at the cost of your pets life!
2 Days after applying 1 dose (vial) 5-22 lbs (used lower dose figuring it was safer, I was against using but due to many outside cats, Vet. insisted to be safe. My dog is over 25 lbs within 2 days of her 1st & ONLY dose she had skin welts all over her body which weren’t there before treatment with frontline plus, she barely touched her food ( she’d normally run to the food bowl) has diarrhea & acting oddly!
Thank god, I pay attention to my pets & realized something was seriously wrong! I immediately rinsed her entire body for over 20min cool/ Luke warm water to dilute the frontline plus & removed her collar to wash, I also started searching online for allergic reaction, etc & what I discovered is horrifying these companies should be ashamed of themselves & the veterinarians who prescribe or recommend the poison!! MONEY it’s ALL about MONEY !! Keep your pet sick so you keep coming back. Same issue with Vaccines, push 2-3 vaccines together animal gets sick you have no way of knowing which one made him/her sick so $$$$ guessing game animal suffers at your expense. Vaccines the animal doesn’t NEED! Think about it …years ago (30-40) dogs & cats lived long happy lives, very few had cancer, cause they weren’t being vaccinated with every poison they’re pushing Today. Yes, I worked for an animal hospital, I’ve heard & seen many things that made me sick to my stomach all for the mighty dollar!
Ask your vet do they have a cat or dog of their own? ask them what vaccines Do they give their own pets. You’ll be surprised to learn Many Don’t vaccinate or will only give 1st round of Distemper & Rabies (only cause law , some don’t & those who do, won’t over lap vaccines they make sure there’s plenty of time has passed between doses (Next vaccine due date) why? Cause it’s harmful, still in their system so you’re over dosing.
IF you MUST Vaccinate..
DON’T be pushed or bullied into having your pet given multiple vaccines in same visit. Ask to spread out over at least a week apart. This way if reaction you KNOW what caused it. No second office visit charge Only To administer a vaccine! IF Vet refuses (ask Vet. Not the just receptionist) & tells you there’s no harm all at once – Find someone else!!
Always research / search online for Product warnings, side effects, recalls, & even animal deaths related to subject. You’ll be shocked at what you learn.
*I was told, I was being overly cautious & frontline / frontline plus was safe, it’s NOT! Don’t risk your pet’s life, they count on you & in return they give their unconditional love which is PRICELESS !
EVERY pet owner whose pet experienced negative effects from the use of Frontline, Frontline plus or any other product or vaccine should report the incident ASAP,
We must stop these companies & their harmful products! If we don’t file a report the FDA does nothing & our pets continue to suffer.
Provided link..
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/report-problem/how-report-animal-drug-and-device-side-effects-and-product-problems
You are so right!
My cat was poisoned by these flea products in 2016.
She was having seizures, became blind and developed neurotoxic paralysis and had to be put down.
It was the saddest thing I ever witnessed.
Thank you for posting this!
There’s nothing “trial and error” about this. It’s literally telling you what to use per pound, and I’ve been doing this for years without a single problem, ever. Comments like this are posted by people trying to feel relevant. It’s a great idea and way to save money
You have no idea what you’re talking about. That method works great!
I showed this article to my vet and she confirmed that it was correct and a great way to save money.
Clearly you’re one of these people who think if I don’t have a bunch of excess money to shell out for now reason, I have no business owning pets (after loving, poor people gave pets wonderful homes for millennia). I have my own medical bills, and it’s only trial and error if you’re incapable of 5th grade math. I can afford to do it this way and can’t afford the sheeple way (and I work very hard to earn my way in this word). It has worked like a charm for many, many years now!
FWIW, I do this for our two dogs (that are about 30 and 40 lbs respectively). I didn’t buy one of the kits but just bought a vial and syringe from CVS or target or somewhere like that. Works great so far (on 2nd month)
How is any of this a gamble? It’s the same stuff, I’m not making it by hand. 🙂 There are ways to detect counterfeit meds, not the least of which is they don’t work. eBay sellers also have to maintain a reputation.
Yes, I have had fleas when we washed the dogs so much after doing muddy hikes that the medication washed off. You just re-apply. Dogs have a naturally higher body temperature which attracts all fleas to them (as opposed to humans), and then they die.
By trial and error, I meant that some people love Advantix, while other swear by Frontline. Some people actually give more frequent doses since it washes off in water or due to baths. Obviously, dosage is not an exact science if a dog twice the size 45 vs 85 lbs. can have the same dosage.
Front line does NOT wash off in water.
While it does not wash off in water, water washes the oil out of the pet’s hair and that reduces effectiveness of the medication. Do not bathe the dog for a couple of days before or after putting it on.
Thanks for pointing this out. I am going to start splitting doses of the larger packets and one of our dogs requires weekly baths for a specific condition. We’ll watch her carefully in case she needs to be dosed slightly more frequently, which, according to vets, can be done, although it will be a last ditch solution. For anyone having difficulty figuring out your pet’s safe dose, ask your friend, neighbor or relative who is a nurse-we do this kind of math daily.
I have 20 years as a Vet Tech: This chart IS accurate & buying Fipro OR Advantage/Advantix in the Large 89lb+ size works! What you might NOT know is that it is advisable to SWITCH every six months between Fipro & Advan. Like any parasite, an immunity can be built & you’ll notice a definite decline in effectiveness.
I am not going to trust ebay sellers when it comes to this stuff.
After doing some web research on what is in these products, I decided not to use on my pets. I read a technical report that said up to 80% of the product is excreted in the feces of the animal which then enters our water supply. Yes, they kill fleas and ticks but are very strong pesticides so one needs to weigh the consequences.
orngkat said:
July 30, 2009 at 8:23 am
“I read a technical report that said up to 80% of the product is excreted in the feces of the animal which then enters our water supply. ”
Everyone should be picking up their dogs waste so it doesn’t enter the water supply.
After picking up your dog’s waste, how do you prevent it from entering the water supply? Hint: throwing it in the garbage pretty much ensures it ends up in the water supply.
However I don’t think this constitutes a serious threat to any water table in North America. There are many much more serious issues arising from chemicals that are carcinogenic and/or hazardous to wildlife in cosmetics for humans than flea/tick treatments for pets. In India farmers are successfully using Coke and Pepsi as pesticides because they’re made from ground water which is highly contaminated with pesticides. The sentiment is honorable, but we’ve got much bigger fish to fry than pet pesticides.
“After picking up your dog’s waste, how do you prevent it from entering the water supply? Hint: throwing it in the garbage pretty much ensures it ends up in the water supply.”
If only we had some device in our houses to put feces into and flush it to a special treatment center…
I wonder, if I searched diligently enough, I might flush one out?
Actually while you are very funny with your sarcastic and witty comment .A friend of mine works for the EPA and she basically goes around the country taking random sample of ground water and testing it and you would be very disturbed to know that in densely populated areas the lab found astonishing levels of active ingredients in widely use prescription medications prozac ,zoloft,pyrethrin and Fipronil which are the active ingredients in flea control and that is just a few of the one I can remember off hand..I filter all my water including my shower and bath water people worry about fluoride but if people knew the truth about how polluted the water actually is
SO TRUE. HUGE problem where I live.
Go suck an egg. Theres a million times more insecticide and other crap in the GMO foods you buy at the grocery store these days. Not counting the weird fillers in vaccines, medications and especially in the “junk” food snacks for sale………….and your worried about a pile of dog doo that by being exposed to the elements will break down quickly (including the medication) into basic elements and be filtered by the soil before returning to the water table.
Guess it’s more convienent to take the doo straight to where it can contaminate something before that………..liberal logic.
The only eggs you will catch me sucking on are from my back yard or one of my immediate neighbors! LOL ….I always thought people were over reacting who insist on eating organic natural foods but since I am eating wholesome natural food that either came from my garden or a neighbors local farm I have lost so much weight ,reversed type 2 diabetes and serious health problems …I have so much more energy at 45 than I had in my 20’s.You are so right !The GMO high fructose corn syrup and salt are deadly …not to mention the vaccines also the fluoride effected my brain after only a few short months of drinking fresh fluoride free water I noticed a huge difference ..I was wrong ..clean food and water transformed my quality of life drastically!
So would you rather your pet gets worms from the fleas (tapeworms)? Or maybe gets heartworms because you don’t want to use the chemicals in a product like Revolution (for fleas,ticks,and heartworm)? Ticks carry many diseases as well, and can kill your pet, as well as giving many terrible diseases to the humans in your house. What would you suggest instead? How do you keep your pets and people protected without the substances that kill the disease carrying insects? And before you say orange oil, peppermint, garlic, yeast, cayenne pepper, cedar oil, lady bugs, nematodes, bats, borate powder, essential oils or any other natural method, I have tried them all, and they are not reliable for any length of time. I am truly interested in what you have found that works as well as the chemicals , because we live in the country in Texas and need a year round solution. We already use sulfur in the yard to control chiggers, but nothing natural works on anything else that I have found.
What’s the costco pricing? I noticed they are selling two packs at ours.
Not sure about Costco, but as I outlined most of the savings is done by buying the extra-large dog doses, and splitting up yourself. 89+ lb. 3-pack = Small 18 doses. Just buy it anywhere you feel comfortable. Personally, I’ve bought from eBay for years with no problems at all. (Obviously not all eBay sellers are the same!)
I have bought and sold on eBay for a long time, and I feel confident when I say that if a seller is selling counterfeit merchandise as the real thing, he won’t be in business very long. Before I buy from a seller, I check to see how long he has been in business and his customer rating. Generally I don’t buy from anyone who has been in business for less than a year or has a rating under 97% unless he has sold a tremendous volume of goods. There’s always an exception to every rule, but that’s kind of what I go by.
Amen to that Sista!I love ebay!
I used a work at a vet clinic so I have a little experience in this area. My first thought was that you could very easily be buying counterfeit meds. A lot of them are made to look *exactly* like the real stuff so its very hard to tell the difference. Best case scenario there is you might end up with a flea-ridden dog but a worse case might be a some illness or health problem caused by whatever chemicals are in there that you actually put in your dog.
Sound far fetched? Not at all. Look at how many health hazards come out of seemingly legitimate channels. Lead in toys from china sold by reputable companies. E. Coli in spinach or hamburger meat. Exploding or leaky batteries in cell phones from major players. Vehicle recalls, The bottom line is using certain products carries an amount of risk and I believe that risk only increases when you start to patron the vastly unregulated world of places like ebay or craigslist. The New York Times has an entire Topics page dedicated to this problem. It mainly centers around drugs for people but the point is it IS a gamble. Maybe one with poorer odds than you originally thought.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/series/toxicpipeline/index.html?scp=2&sq=counterfeit%20medication&st=cse
I know you think you’re being clever by saving some money. But there’s a reason that stuff is cheaper on ebay. You’re not getting the same thing. Your assurance of quality and safety for your pet is much higher at vet clinics and well established veterinarian pharmacies. That’s what you’re paying the extra money for.
I have not nor seen anyone selling meds from CHINA. I BOYCOTT ANYTHING made in China. The people on Ebay that I’ve been in contact with, love their animals and have been very helpful. This has been my experience.
Yea I think so……………I’m buying mine at vet supply’s or Wal Mart and cutting the dose for each animal, and have for several years. No need to HAVE TO buy from Ebay (although it helps the small business community) if you don’t want to. I use the Front Line on BOTH my dogs AND cats..(I know it says don’t). Been using it on my cats for over 10 yrs now (my 14yr old Tomcat is healthy, poor like me and wise), works like a charm. Unless a real bad breakout of fleas happens (does every so often) in 3-4 days IF a flea jumps off on me it is usually staggering around like a 3day drunk, ready to die. If that happens then for the first 2-3 doses I do it every 14-18 days, then go back to the once monthly (have lots of ticks around). I’ve even used it on 2-3 month old kittens (cutting the dose drastically of course), never had a sick cat or kitten over it.
kittens 6-8wks. old what amount would you suggest!
I can’t speak on flea meds because I don’t own any animals yet but as far as ebay goes. You can pretty much rely on any seller with a rating of 99% or higher. An ebay rating of 97% is actually quite low. Stick to 99%+ sellers and you should be ok and actually read the listings.
There’s also petcareRX that’s currently offering a 15% discount if you go through upromise. I put both meds in 1800petmeds and petcarerx. Although petCareRX had the higher list price with the 15% discount it was cheaper.
I get the advantage multi.
I’m surprised that there isn’t any regulation of drugs on Ebay. Granted they’re for pets, but I’m sure that there might be some doggie narcotics that some humans might try to take.
Nope. Anything with any opiate or sedative qualities is prescription-only whether it’s for animals or humans. Many pet meds are prescription only, including many that wouldn’t have any psychoactive effect on any mammal.
You can’t buy or sell prescription drugs on ebay, though some may have tried at some point.
ebay can be good for many small, lightweight items with low shipping cost. For example I get good prices on replacement electric toothbrush heads and razor blades. I generally stay away from sellers lower than about 99.7%.
To reiterate, you don’t HAVE to buy the frontline itself off of ebay.
I bought a vial, a syringe, and frontline for 89-132 lb dogs. Thus from one “normal” dose I get enough for my two < 40lb dogs (more than enough).
Again to be very clear, this works because a 3-pack (or 6-pack) of frontline is approximately the same cost whether it’s for a 20lb dog or a 132lb dog, despite the fact that there is much more of the actual chemical in the 132lb dog dose package.
Thanks – I never thought to check ebay for this stuff.
Johnathan,
I really like and appreciate your website. However, Frontline is a pesticide that’s regulated by the EPA. As a result, advocating its use outside of the manufacturers instructions can be considered illegal.
Additionally, if you split up the doses, its alcohol component (which is responsible for the product being absorbed into the skin) can evaporate, so none of the product may be absorbed on subsequent doses.
Finally, Merial guarantees the product when it is dispensed in accordance with instructions. A years worth of Frontline Plus still costs less than an office visit to the veterinarian for fleas (and the accompanying frustration). Additionally, what happens if the dog contracts Lyme disease (something that will not leave the dog, even if treated, for months to years)?
I’m suprised to hear a vet say this. I have been a vet tech for over 20 years, working in vet offices as well as rescues, and you are THE FIRST vet I have EVER heard recommend against this. I understand that you, technically, have to say this, esp online. I have personally split doses and dosed hundreds, more likely THOUSANDS of animals. I have never had one reaction, but it did get rid of fleas. I have NEVER seen ONE instance of an animal being harmed by doing this, in ANY way. I’m curious to ask, have you? And if an animal did have a reaction, was it bc of splitting doses, or just a reaction to the product? And I strongly disagree that a year of Frontline Plus is cheaper than a vet visit, but if you do charge that much, it leads me to ask, are you more worried about padding the bill than what is in the best interest of the animals, in the way of what people can afford? Working with rescues, we were doing this, on vets recommendation, LONG before most people heard about it. A lot of people in these times can not afford to spend top dollar and have to cut corners, and doctors understand this. So, what do you recommend for people that can’t afford to do it the only way you recommend? that rather than split doses the animal gets no protection? BC then they will definately have fleas and ticks. Are you speaking from experience, in the best interest of the animal and what people can afford, or just repeating manufacturer recommendations bc that’s what you’re supposed to do? I mean no offense, I feel that it’s a disservice to animals to give this advice, but that’s just my opinion. I would definately recommend that people are very careful, and use a fair amount of common sense… store in airtight container and use within a reasonable amount of time, and if it evaporates than of course throw it out. No, I’m not a doctor, but I do have a TON of experience with this. Additionally, frontline doesn’t work well for ticks, never has, even when used on manufacturers recommendations. It will kill the ticks that are currently on the animal when you put the product on, but that’s it.
Boom!
Personally I would trust a Vets expertise if we were talking about an injury or illness but when comes to something like flea control I do not think Veterinarians are more of an authority than a person who runs a dog rescue …which is who suggested I buy the frontline pack for a large dog and split the doses up so I can medicate all my animals with one large dog dose because they have actual hands on experience they administer care /treatment and observe first hand results of said treatment.A vet goes to school 4 years and learns basic Veterinary Medicine for the entire animal Kingdom and the rest they learn from the pet pharmaceutical companies (who trusts them?not me)recommendations for dosage and side effects ..which is why Vets opinions often vary but one thing is for sure Vets are for profit and their own profit agenda usually (not always but for the most part )is a component of the advise they give ..So if you like and trust your Vet or the Vet you were employed by…I would go with your instinct
More than 2 decades ago my vet recommended splitting a large dose, and it has always worked well for both dogs and cats, both Advantage and now Frontline
RIGHT ON!
Did you just become a vet and are carried away with your credentials and ability to quote rules and regulations? Get over yourself and realize people are doing this because they want to protect their animals which they might not be able to afford to do otherwise. I would never use you as my vet.
We had an issue ordering HeartGard from PetMeds.com. They require a note from a veternarian before they’ll complete your order. Our vet refuses to give her consent, saying she doesn’t trust “those websites.” My wife thinks she’s trying to keep our business captive. She’s an older woman, and a bit cooky, so I think it’s plain old distrust of new technology. Anyway, she’s extremely good with animals and a 3-minute walk away, so that outweighs the hassle of buying heartworm meds. I haven’t checked eBay for HeartGard….but I will right after this comment is typed.
We’ve used eBay for flea medication for over 2 years and never had problems. This concept of splitting doses is new to me. We apply Frontline once a month, so I’d be worried about the unused half spilling or spoiling before the next application.
Randy,
I’m a vet tech. I have never heard of a vet refusing to fill a script that they would otherwise fill in house. It is well known that these sites, the big one or two anyway, are legit businesses. I do know that vets don’t necessarily like it when you go buy your scripts somewhere cheaper bc they make a lot of money up-charging meds. I would be leary, truthfully offended, if my vet would not approve a script through somewhere else. I have never heard of it, it’s not moral practice in my opinion. It is the exact equivalent of you going to your doctor and him insisting that you buy his up-charged meds from his office, instead of going to a pharmacy that sells them cheaper. Shout, there’s probably a law against it. I would find myself a new vet. If you like your vet a lot and its worth it, then just be aware. good luck! BTW, I have split doses of frontline on hundreds of animals, never with a bad reaction. Just use good sense and store in an airtight container so it doesn’t evaporate and throw the chemical balance off. If it gets so old it starts to evaporate, toss it.
Thousands of hunting dogs are protected from heartworms each year by giving them monthly small oral doses of liquid Ivermectin that is ordinarily sold for cow/pig wormer. Look it up.
Of course she is trying to keep your business captive Vet’s mark up on medication is crazy .Even if the vet somehow rationalizes it he/she has an agenda of profit
@randy
frontline should be available without a prescription.
heartguard should only be available with a prescription – i would be leery of anyone selling hearguard without a script.
My wife works as a vet tech as an average sized vet hospital and she has first hand experience with unknown medication for pets. People are always bringing in a pet that is suffering from a multitude of symptoms that end up being as a result of renal (kidney) failure. Most cases of this in animals is as a result of consuming something poisonous. A certain number of these cases are as a result of counter fit flea meds.
How Advantage/Advantix and Frontline work is different then other flea meds you may find over the counter in your grocery store. Advantage/Advantix and Frontline work by not absorbing directly into the blood steam. However, other flea medications do absorb into the blood stream, where your pet’s kidneys have to work to filter it out. For users of Capstar, don’t think your medication is any better, most vets will tell you “its normal for your pet to vomit after the first dose or two.” It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that anything that makes your vomit is not good for you.
Counter fit Advantage/Advantix and Frontline are prevalent on EBay and even at your vet’s office. For example:
http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/resources/articles/dogs/174-counterfeit-flea-tick-products.htm
http://www.entirelypets.com/epavefoflco.html
Saying “Oh this EBay seller has a 99.99999% positive feedback they must be selling the legit stuff.” is definitely flawed logic. This about how long it takes before people leave feedback on average… a week after the purchase usually.. a max of 90 days (as per EBay). By the time people’s animals get sick, they’ve already left a positive comment and there’s no further follow up they can make. It takes many months and even years for you to notice what its doing to your pet. And even then, how many people know that their pet died as a result of renal failure due to counter fit medication.
You’re just ending the life of your pet early to save a few dollars off of EBay. I’ve been a long time reader of Jonathan’s blog for many years and have followed a lot of his tips over the years. But this is one I strongly recommend that no one follow and even Jonathan himself discontinues.
I just ordered some meds from 1800 PetMeds. Thanks for the info on the counterfits!!! I’m going to make sure it is in fact Frontline and not a counterfit.
“Counter fit Advantage/Advantix and Frontline are prevalent on EBay and even at your vet’s office.”
So true, i had to return mine, it didn’t fit my counter.
@Randy.
My vet called me telling me they would price match to the price on the website. I told them about the additional 15% I got and could show them the receipt if they could match to that. They said they couldn’t and they faxed over their consent latter that afternoon and I received my order a few days latter. Also these medicines aren’t meant to stay on their skin, they are absorbed into their blood.
I am from a time when you did not inject your animals for fleas! With any sort of vaccine – we all ‘flea dipped’ our animals and they were just fine! Fleas do not come from the inside of an animal. And the flea dip coated the skin and hair and was a protection and none of my animals or kids ever got sick from flea dipping. You may have to do this twice a summer – but it is low cost and very effective. Thank you, Carol Baldwin. Also it is safe, in comparison.
Carol:
Frontline/Advantage don’t involve any sort of injection…You just put a small amount of liquid on the animals neck, between the shoulder blades once a month.
The syringe is just for meting out the dosage.
Frontline contains a very destructive pesticide called fipronil and should not be used on any animals ever. You are worried about “counterfeits” maybe hurting your pets when the real thing is at least as bad.
http://www.biol.sc.edu/~coull_lab/staton/ab17.html
The old flea dips did send many dogs into convulsions over the years so that was never an option anyway.
And Advantage is no better.
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/imidacloprid.pdf
Stop poisoning your pets and your families with this garbage! Look into natural alternatives like diatomaceous earth, nematodes, species appropriate diets.
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/avictim.htm
I do appreciate and respect all efforts to avoid toxic chemicals and funding pharm companies, but in hot and humid conditions those little buggers can really get around. My 5-unit building got infested and all fingers were pointed at me because I was the only one with outdoor cats. I was fighting them with natural means with limited success, but their apartments were overrun. Thankfully one apartment never had either of my cats in it and did not even share ventilation with the other apartments, which proved that the yard was infested and they were getting around on people’s legs. I’m sure it was also an atypically mobile and insipid flea, but nonetheless I dose my cats with the commercial stuff in part to insulate myself from liability because it was over $1000 to rid the building of fleas, and take a wild guess how toxic the chemicals are that pro exterminators use.
If you live in an arid and/or temperate area, then natural means will likely work. but if you don’t use the sure thing during hot and humid periods it’s a classic case of penny-wise pound-foolish both in terms of finances and environmental protection. Case in point, I live in Canada, near the great lakes. When it gets hot here it’s crazy humid. But in say Arizona it’ll get hotter but without the humidity I doubt the real nasty ones can get around so much. I also had the only apartment with air conditioning, I bet that helped.
I, for one, thank you for this post. I had never thought about buying on e-bay and with 100% feedback, I’m going to take the “risk” and go for it. With three dogs, we are spending a ton on flea meds. Thanks again!
I agree that everyone should do a little research on fipronil as cyndiann states. I think a lot of people are under the impression that it is harmless to your pets. It seems to me like the fleas and ticks just get stronger and meaner the more we pollute our world with stuff like this.
Pet cancers are higher than they have ever been a retired Vetinarian who was a vet 40 years started seeing pet cancers go up suddenly and attributes to the pet food and the flea treatment ingredient Fipronil (in frontline)and some other but I forgot the names and this is a serious inner struggle I have if I don’t use the frontline my animals get infested and chew themselves and scratch to the point where they are truly miserable..I am wheelchair bound and could not wash the dogs and cats I have eveyday which is what is required for natural treatments .I foster and take in rescue dogs and cats and I live in a rural area so I allow the county to release feral neutered cat on my property and they provide food and medical care..it frees up space in the shelters and the cats are happy because they are not dead or in a cage..it helps me keep the rodent population down many farmers are signing up for the feral cat program as it is beneficial for all involved .(FYI to anyone out there reading this ….I just wanted to note that frontline for dogs and cats is the same but the advantix is different for cats and dogs )
Once you open a vial, you’re exposing it to air (oxygen). Wwhat makes you think that the active ingredients fipronil and S-methoprene both will be stable for 6 months when exposed to air?
I would say that this is a bad idea. Many compounds in solutiond degrades when exposed to air and I would be surprised if an open vial lasted for many months.
And your theory that you think because “many compounds in solution degrades when exposed to air” that this applies to fipronil because of your research in this area ? ? ? For what institution do you do research?
From the I-find-pride-in-saying-something-“Smart”-in-the-internet research institute
No one is saying leave an open vial around, in fact they all say to store it in an airtight container that doesn’t allow light…such as glass amber vials.
The reason people think it is harmless is because they don’t call it what it is, a pesticide. It is not a medication.
When you put raw pesticides right on your dog it makes them ill and fleas will attack more when an animal is not totally healthy. Catch 22 unfortunately.
You can actually make your dog more flea proof by feeding a better diet.
Oh, and Whitney, if you insist on using Frontline or something similar you don’t need to put it on every animal. Back when I used Advantage I would treat just one dog and none had fleas. At least this way only one gets poisoned.
Fleas do not attack animals that are “not totally healthy” more than their totally healthy counterparts. An animal may suffer more if it is ill, but fleas do not discriminiate. Also, if you use diatomaceous earth to prevent and treat heartworm, you will kill your pets; it is absolutley ineffective against heartworm, and you are irresponsibly spreading dangerous, unresearched information to pet owners.
cyndiann/orngkat:
Neither of you have provided any links and any information that indicates that frontline is harmful to either dogs or people (I’m assuming cyndiann you linked to that url because t used lots of big words and you assumed people wouldn’t understand what it’s saying?). If you’re going to make such statements as it “makes your dog ill” you are “poisoning” your dog AND your family, I really think you need to back it up.
I’m more than willing to evaluate evidence that frontline makes pets and people sick, but let’s see it.
And here’s a link of my own… search for pesticides… American Cancer Society FAQ on Diet
Thank You kuzbad! Saved me some time that I would have taken to say something similar, even though this thread is ancient!
I’m so glad that I stumbled upon this site. I have a 8 lb chihuahua and a 30 lb rat terrier. Yes he is extremely overweight and we are working on it. 🙂 I bought the frontline 23 to 44 lbs and I’m going to split the dosage. My vet wants almost 47 dollars for just two separate doses for a one month treatment. I got the three pack so it should last 3 months. Thanks for the great idea here and comments.
The problem is that most of the studies are conducted funded and affiliated with the companies who manufacture the pesticides in Flea control “medication” also the politicians who are in charge of regulating and approving drugs were employed by those same companies or received huge campaign contributions …you make a very good point but good data from independent studies is few and far between as it is often written off as “Kook Science “of shunned by the mainstream who all seemingly have conflicts of interest and agendas driven by profits than hard science with proper protocols in place …Research scientists cannot make a living if they don’t play the game ..it is a serious problem in a world where Corporations are deemed as People by the supreme court it is very difficult for anyone who engages in critical thought to form solid conclusions.
I fully support this concept of buying in bulk and not allowing the manufacturer to overcharge due to customers’ ignorance.
I am NOT a fan of chemicals, drugs or even medicines for that matter.
But our dog was suffering for weeks from a flea infestation, and after realizing that several natural products had little effect, we finally broke down and used Frontline Plus.
I spoke to a rep from Merial (the maker of Frontline Plus) about this specific issue. He clearly couldn’t overtly recommend the practice, as it would impact the company’s profit, but when he considered the practice of carefully measuring the correct dose from a larger quantity, he offered no resistance. He clarified that every size vial (or pipette) of product contains the identical concentration and % of active ingredients. The ONLY difference is the volume quantity in each package.
The different sized pipettes contain an extractable volume of 0.67ml, 1.34ml, 2.68ml or 4.02ml.
the largest one is 6x more product for roughly the same price.
I agree with Kuzbad in the previous comment, in that, the article mentioned by cyndiann, albeit interesting, didn’t really convince that fipronil was especially harmful to mammals.
Actually, the article left me with the impression that fipronil is better than the alternatives. (again, i don’t like chemicals, but there may be times when one must choose the lesser of evils)
cyndiann makes a great point re “counterfeits” maybe hurting your pets when the real thing is at least as bad.
If you know something safer that protects your pet from fleas, then don’t use Frontline!
cyndiann is also correct that (paraphrasing) Fipronil is an insecticide
and it’s incorrect to call it medication.
That’s marketing for you.
Another aspect of marketing is how they sell prepackaged vials in different sizes for different sized animals for “convenience” rather than just selling their product in a bottle.
Clearly, we all care about our pets, and we should minimize the use of chemicals.
Specifically we need to be certain not to overdose with Frontline Plus.
Our dog is 8 pounds, so we got the 0-22 pound dose (the most exorbitantly priced).
We should probably use only half of the smallest dose.
An interesting note from Merial’s literature regarding Frontline Spot On: “No adverse effects were observed in target animal safety studies in 8 week old puppies, growing dogs and dogs weighing about 2kg treated once at five times the recommended dose.”
A concern expressed here which i thought was logically presented was from ‘troop’ who states “Many compounds in solution degrade when exposed to air and I would be surprised if an open vial lasted for many months.”
I can’t verify the following statement, found at http://doyourownpestcontrol.com/fipronil.htm
however I find it believable
“Fipronil is not volatile, therefore there are not airborne active ingredients released”
And regarding a different product also containing fipronil
it has “a shelf life of approximately 2 years in an unopened container.
Once they are applied, they will last at least one year”
I would proffer that if kept in a proper container after opening, it’s unlikely that the product would dissipate or lose its effectiveness, but the worst case scenario is that it would be somewhat less effective over time, therefore less harmful to the pet.
Many comments left in this thread seemed to miss the point, imho.
There are many potential pitfalls:
not buying from a reputable source,
obtaining counterfeit product,
poorly administering the pesticide, etc.
If you believe you know with certainty where the best, freshest, genuine package of Frontline Plus is sold, buy it there. That should obviate the need to discuss if a 99.7% or 97.9% ebay
rating is more likely to sell you real product.
This topic was not whether consumers can be duped into buying bad products, or whether pesticides are healthy for dogs.
The main thrust of this topic was simply IF you choose to use Frontline Plus on your pet, then buy in bulk and divide into proper dosages.
That is an excellent idea.
We have a 12 week old puppy and were given Frontline and Heartguard from our Vet when he was vaccinated. In less than 24 hrs from the Frontline Vaccination, our puppy started vomiting. We thought maybe he ate too fast, he vomited again, but it was still kibble so, we figured he just gobbled it up too quickly. The next morning, we woke up to find more vomit and he started with diarrhea. He was still rather playful, but we started to wonder..by that evening his interest in food and water and playing were gone. He continued vomitting through the night and we took him to the emergency vet where he was given antibiotic shots put on anti vomitting and anti diarrhea medication (3 of each pill every 4 hrs administered orally), sent home with a liquid diet to be given to him orally 5 cc’s or less whatever he could keep down the longest every 15 minutes around the clock. We stayed up all day and night administering his meds, but the vomitting continued and he progressively worsened and began tremoring. We got him to the veternary hospital and he was kept there to recieve IV Fluids and meds. Not an hour after we left we received a phone call from the vet asking if we had put any flea medication on the dog…that’ when I told him that I had put the frontline on him. That is what caused this reaction along with the tremors. At this point the doc was doing everything he could to try to get him through it, he stayed for 2 nights and 1 day. When we went to pick him up tonight we were told he is borderline kidney failure with a BUN reading of 139. He is now on kidney failure meds, vitamins, and prednisone not to mention a diet of chicken and rice and measured amounts of water. He goes back in a week to check his kidney functions. There is no cure for the damage this product has done. I am greatful to the emergency vet for pinpointing the problem. Our little Cub was in bad shape, he is now going to have a lifetime of problems from this. It’s all because the original vet we took him to could’t wait to give us our welcome puppy kit with these products in it. Shame on the manufactures of these toxic chemicals…you wouldn’t put pesticides on your children on a monthly basis to prevent lice would you. You have to look at what’s important here. This product has permanently damaged our beautiful new family member for life.
And yes, I know Frontline is not a vaccination, I meant application. These laptops are a little tricky, so sorry for the bad spelling. I hope you really think about it before using these products, they are dangerous and anyone who tells you otherwise has not done there research.
why are you all dwelling on ebay!!!All they are saying is that they buy the biggest tube and share it.You can purchas it anywhere you please. If You don’t like e-bay buy from where you want.I would like to say thank you for the helpful tip
I agree with kevnet. People are totally missing the forest for the trees on this one. The original post is NOT about trusting people on ebay, or that Frontline Plus is the best flea product ever. It’s about SAVING MONEY by properly dividing doses of flea medication — as the title of the post (AND blog) indicates. This isn’t a blog about how to take care of your pet! Read the bold print, people!!
[end rant]
By the way, moneyblog writer — i think your idea is great. My friends also do this with their pets, and they’ve been flea free for years. Basic math does come in handy!
Petcare RX had good prices on line, but they ended up debiting my account 2xs, on different days for different amounts. Fought for weeks to get it fixed. Cust. Service in India….enought said. I will never use them again.
This is fascinating. I have always disagreed with the way they dose. Advantage, with its 21-55 lbs and then 55 and up—if your dog is 57 lbs it hets 4.0ml instead of 2.5ml for only 2 lbs more weight?! They must do it this way because its a lot harder to make dozens of dose sizes based on true ml per pounds OR as someone else said, if they did then we could all figure it out and just buy fewer, large doses and a syringe.
I have read a LOT about how these poisons do more damage than we know about and what vet or manufacturer is going to say anything to the contrary? Good or bad it still makes money for them! They either make it from sales or get to charge if the animals need emergency treatment.
Being afraid, we tried many NATURAL treatments with almost ZERO effect. Over the last few years we had 2 cats die of renal failure after being treated and 4 dogs develop fatty tumors. Now our dogs are so flea riddled that I have no choice, and after doing research it seems that .05ml per pond on the Advantage seems to be a correct dose. That means 3.0 on a 60 lb dog–NOT 4.0. Anyone have a comment on this?
I think the tip about dividing the doses is really helpful. Frontline seems outrageously expensive.
While I have concerns about the effects of the stuff on my dog I have yet to find a better way to keep the ticks off her. She is an inside dog that only goes out for walks and restroom duty yet she got lyme disease before she was two. Vet recommended Frontline + vaccination because neither is 100% effective. In our area if you don’t keep ticks off the dogs with 100% effectiveness they get Lyme disease almost immediately. Considering you can’t “dip” them every time they go outside, what is the lesser evil ?
Using your tips, I bought a 4 pack of 4Ml units for $48 on sale. I used small syringes and measuerd out .375ml per pound of animal weight, then did 7 dogs and three cats and some left over. The relief to them was almost immediate and last night was the fist in weeks we have been able to sleep without their digging and scratching. They are still at it a bit today but Im guessing those are new fleas hopping on for a meal, and also skin hotspots that bother them. One dog did throw up this morning, which bothers us a lot.
Yes, it’s a lot cheaper to divide doses yourself. I’m not sure about what the vet said about the alcohol formulation, but I’ve heard vets say ridiculous things about buying online. If it’s in the original Merial packaging, then why worry?
As far as pesticides, yes those are pesticides. However, if you live in areas where fleas are rampant, they cannot be gotten rid of by dips or any diatomaceous earth product, or garlic, etc etc etc. I live in Texas, and if you’ve ever seen a dog sick and miserable, maybe dying from fleas in the summer, then you will welcome anything that can kill them without too many side effects on the pet.
I live in Florida where fleas can be very horrible. They very much *can* be controlled without using pesticides. And lots cheaper than treating your pet for cancer later on.
Look up nematodes.
Don’t tell me it can’t be done when I’m doing it!
Well I went ahead and bought new name brand from the Vet but read all the comments in the web about using .25 to .5 ml per pound. I poured 4 vials into a small clean glass and used a syringe. I used .375ml per pound. It styarted to work within several hours and by the next 2 days they were not tearing at their own skin. GREAT I thought—but it wasnt as effecyive as a full dose and within a week they were back to biting and scratching, just not as bad. We must have killed many fleas but it wasnt enough to keep killing the leftovers. Now I have to figure out how much to use as a second dose, and wish Id just used the .5 per pound—maybe a bit more.
Are you sure you mean .5 per pound and not .05 per pound?
And to cyndiann—Im glad it worked for you. We tried EVERYTHING. All the oils, herbal garbage, nematodes, hunt and pick, long baths with Dawn soap, NOTHING worked. The worst of all was the organic treatment from oils, etc. It showed no difference at all. We got our money back.
I think I am even more confused after reading this, lol. I live in Florida also, where the fleas in the summer are horrendous. I have a 10lb yorkie who only goes out to go potty but ends up with a major flea problem every summer. I was thinking about purchasing a flea kit(Frontline), but am nervous to do so, but the price is very affordable. Hubs is a new home contractor, and we all know what the economy has done to that business, so we are looking to cut some expenses. I’ve been bathing her with Dawn, it does kill the existing fleas, so is it better to just bathe every 7-10 days or go with some kind of flea treatment and hope it doesn’t make her ill?? We had a cat a while ago who became VERY ill after receiving one of the flea treatments we received from our vet. She had some kind of seizure after we applied it, so I am kind of skeptical about using it on such a small dog.
Cyndiann from Florida, I’d love to get some tips from you!!!
Interesting note is that we have used advantage for about 5 years on all our pets. We have had 3 cars die from renal failure, and 3 of our dogs have medium to massive fatty tumors on the chests, belly and sides. 1 cat has fatty tumors. The Vet says she hasnt seen this many tumors within one group of dogs/cats and is worried about something being the common cause. We had animals for 30 years before advantage without fatty tumors. Interesting, isnt it??
That is interesting, my rat terrier has developed a huge fatty lipoma on his chest like in between his front legs and one on the top of his leg. Scary.
I changed to a holistic vet years ago with my Dobie. He told me that all of the growths were various vaccination shot spots and they were. Everywhere he had been injected produced some type of growth. The important thing I learned from him (Dr. Stephen Tobin Meridan, CT) was cats/dogs don’t need all these shots! They need the first round and then they’re good. I stopped going to the vet years ago. Garlic and brewers yeast is used for dogs tick prevention.
Advantage and K-9 Advantix is NOT recommended for use on cats. It will make them sick and possibly kill them.
I have split my dose of flea topical for years. I buy an eyedropper bottle from my pharmacist and empty the vile of solution into it.
The eyedropper is meted for help with correct measurements.
Works great, but know your doses!
Also, know your geographic location and the tick and flea threat in your area. I have found that below the Mason-Dixon line, stronger solutions of topical agents are needed and needed every month.
While living in the Northeast U.S. I was able to skip dosing in the heart of winter.
I read through half the comments of this old post and I didn’t see where anyone corrected Jonathan for saying that he reapplies Frontline after washing his dog. This is not only unnecessary, but possibly dangerous too.
As noted previously, Frontline is an insecticide that is absorbed into the skin, which is why it’s unnecessary to reapply after giving your dog a bath. So when you put more on your dog after a bath, you’re effectively giving it a dose that’s twice the size of what Merial recommends. That seems like a very bad idea to me. The package even says that it doesn’t wash off, so there’s absolutely no reason to reapply.
Having said that, I think this is a great idea. I concur with others that I’d rather buy mine from somewhere other than eBay, but I don’t see any risk in dividing legitimate packages. Thanks!
I actually do the splitting of doses on my two dogs. We buy the largest vials to reduce cost and store it an a eye dropper bottle — you can purchase an empty bottle at your pharmacy. So the Frontline does not evaporate after opening as one person worried. The dropper itself has ml markings and we dose our dogs according to weight, one gets 1.3 ml and the other gets 1.5 ml. The only thing we do differently than the manufacturer recommends is we use it every 6 weeks instead of monthly. I suspect this might alleviate some of your concerns about overdosing your pet with chemicals. This works great for my dogs; not a flea on them or in the house in the six plus years we’ve been doing this. And someone mentioned the old fashioned way of flea dipping. We did that years ago with our Springer Spaniel. She still suffered miserably from fleas and they were all over the house until we discovered Frontline.
Rick if you absolutely insist on poisoning your pets then please just dose one of them, which ever one is healthier. You don’t have to treat both for full protection, you save about half the money and one dog isn’t poisoned.
This entire thread has saved a lot ogf money for us. We have 7 dogs. Now I buy the largest (100ml) tubes in a 4 pack and use diabetic syringes to dose an exact amount per pound using the ml/lb that the largest dog would get. This way the smaller dogs are not so terribly overdosed and I can stretch the med out and really get a low dollar per dose. Its worked well.
Marvin Von Renchler
I forgot—to some of you who insist that this is poisoning our pets: I partially agree and HATE to put this stuff on an animal but we tried every type of organic method out there and NOTHING worked. The oils, herbals, barhs, blah blah. Nothing worked. The dogs were so covered with hot spots from flea biting by that time that we had no choice but to use Advantage.
I had 3 dogs and a cat when I decided to finally break down and use Frontline. We really weren’t able to afford it at the time – since we had paid for so much in the previous year. The Lab’s hip surgery failed…(nerve damage) and after 4 months had to have his rear leg amputated. I think that was 1500.00. Then the Yorkie’s hernia started to bulge and get hard – so that needed urgent surgery – I believe that was about $900. And then a month after her surgery the Chi pup needed to get fixed. (I didn’t realize how cheap it would have been at the spca and my vet scared me by saying they are all on the same breathing system and God only knows what they bring into that place) and so she was $300 to get spayed.
And that was JUST the dogs. That whole year the cat was starting to dye from GI cancer – and we didn’t know it yet. (and my husband had had her all 15 years of her life and kept saying, oh – she’s doing this, she’s doing that – she must be “ok”, she doesn’t need to be put down. This went on for even 6 months after the vet said she had a horrible quality of life and we were spending at least $600 a month on tests and visits and special foods and meds.)
So – we weren’t really in a position to afford “fancy flea meds” for 4 animals….heck, I was even grooming the yorkie myself, didn’t look pretty – but I got the job done.
But then my husband went to Sri Lanka for two weeks – and the fleas came.
And it started with the yorkie biting herself raw.
And noticing brown spots all over our white sheets. (flea excrement)
Then shaving the yorkie down very short – still not seeing fleas and not knowing it was fleas – but “just in case” – giving all the dogs flea baths. (and see how fun it is to give a tri-pawd who is always scared of slippery surfaces a bath in a tub or shower.)
Then finally – on the Chi’s face – on her white fur – I saw the first flea, of like FIVE IN A ROW. I told my 8 yr old. I said, “When there’s one, it may be a fluke – one from the yard or something. But the lab is biting his butt off. The yorkie is chewing herself to bits. And you just helped me spot FIVE fleas in a row on the chi. They are like cockroaches – you see that many – then you can guarantee that they are all around you.
So I did my homework – did my research.
Treated the yards.
All the bedding, moved ALL the furnature. WENT THROUGH ABOUT 20 BOXES OF BORAX. Had both my giant boys sleeping in my bed – the only “borax free/flea free” room – since I focused on getting that one done first.” Broke a vaccuum cleaning up all that borax stuff.
Used like two huge bottles of dawn washing the dogs in it every other day between flea shampoos. The cat stayed locked up in the laundry room so she would hopefully not get them – or not get too many of them. (poor kitty)
Treated the yard again.
And after 10 days or so of straight up flea hell. (you should have seen how nasty I was on my facebook status’ and really – God bless the person who can deal with a big 4 bedroom, mostly carpeted house, with no adult help, to treat for fleas – and keep up with the regular routine as well, and all the stuff while the spouse is out of the country for a few weeks. I wasn’t the nicest person to know then.)
Finally I read about this pill you can give your pets that will kill any living flea on them within a certain amount of time. I was like – hmmmm. maybe that will work. It was fairly cheap…and it would let me suck up all the fleas that were jumping around my house.
well – that plan sucked. i did that, and washed dogs again, and two days later – they are at it again. and fresh fleas everywhere (and that’s with another application of borax on the floors.
So my girlfriend sent me the large thing of frontline plus – she has 6 dogs and said it would be enough for my 40 lb, 8 lb and 4lb dog. She gave me the exact pound amount – and I also bought some more of the stuff that kills them dead instantly. So hopefully – we could really wipe them out this time.
Well – it did an “ok” job….but THE PROBLEM WITH GIVING FLEA INFESTED DOGS THE PER POUND DOSAGE, IS THAT IT ISN’T ENOUGH TO KILL ALL THOSE EGGS TOO. I think when you are starting up for the first time ( or starting up again) – you have to go with a dose closer to the listed dose for your dog’s weight range.
I always worry when I put .67 ml on my tiny 4lb chiuahua. It’s so much. I don’t know where it’s all gonna go! My yorkie is 2x bigger than her and she gets the same dose! How is that suppose to be right?
But when I’ve been on schedule – I just stay closer to the dose I was told is appropriate for their weight – but I go a tad over, since I live where fleas run rampant in our fields and I am surrounded by dogs that “live outside” and the owners could give a rats ass if their dog has fleas or not.
I am switching over to Revolution – because I’m tired of trying to coordinate the heartguard AND the flea meds – and I want them on the same schedule.
i did just get two new pups – and they came with some ticks on them….and they are just at the right age to use up the remaining unopened package I have.
I will get a glass medicine dropper – that’s a great idea.
I’m fairly sure that the dosage would not matter when it comes to eggs. Once the flea eats, it drops off and lays the eggs in the carpet/bedding/grass. As long as the flea dies before it lays eggs, then mission accomplished. If even a few drop off before you treat your pet, the eggs will hatch in the environment and become fleas to start everything all over again.
So I know that whole life cycle is true, but I’m not sure why flea meds claim to kill eggs and young fleas if those are not in contact with the pet. Does anyone have a link to a good article on this? No winging it either please. A article written by a professional would be really helpful.
I know I just had that super long post – I was just trying to give my experience with it. (I should have pointed it out for the Yorkie owner who is nervous. I think Yorkies can get a bit neurotic at chewing on themselves – and it’s made such a big difference having her on the flea meds. She use to go hide places where we couldn’t find her for hours, so she could bite and chew.)
OH – AND TO THE NATURALISTS WHO POSTED THEIR BIG WORDED “fact sheet”.
Big whoop.
Did you know what all the fancy prius cars do to the environment?
No, well let me edjumicate you a bit. (I can’t stand when these folks get on their high horse and think that since they “bettered their lives” by making this choice, they need to be brash and brazen towards others, and guilt them into thinking their way. You’d think they were some religious freaks or something.)
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/727346/
http://www.productivity501.com/cost-vs-benefit-revisited/219/
Hi there just wanted to clarify something about the flea meds available and the controversy about dividing doses up.I have worked with animals all my life.I also research more than the average person.To clear things up,yes you can safely divide the Frontline up according to the pets weight.To be safe,use the correct ml that the manafactures box states.Heres the catch tho: you can not divide doses up and store them! You must use right away for the full effectiveness and the reason being is,there is alcohol in the package to help distribute the product correctly & effectively.We all know that alcohol evaporates quickly upon exposure to air.So storing left over doses,is safe to say that their effectiveness might be compromised because the alcohol used to distribute the product will no longer be effective.Thats why they package it seperately.Yes you may divide doses immediately but donot store this stuff.over time it will no be as effective.Also,to the people who complain about”fancy”flea meds.Well look at it this way,you may pick the flea or ticks off after you see them,but if that flea or tick is carrying Lyme or any other life threatening disease,your hand picking will not help the disease that the bug already inflicted.Flea prevention,PREVENTS disease not only fleas & ticks.Also to know if you are getting name brand products,Bayer makes advantage and Merial makes frontline.If your order doesnt come with a box,you are taking a chance.These vets products are way safer because they donot enter the bloodstream such as the cheaper meds like Hartz.HARTZ products have killed pets unable to filter their products thru their kidneys or blood stream.Stuff sold at the stores are cheaper for a reason.#1 cheap ingredients,and #2 its alot harder & more exspensive to make a safe medicine that works thru the skins glands & pores opposed to something that just enters the bloodstream easily.Thank you for the read
OMG! Will the Guastopo please calm down? Foget Ebay was even mentioned. Sheesh! I’ve been doing this for almost 10 years, never a problem. And not just with Frontline, but mostly with Revolution, with my vets permission. He even encourages it for patients with many smaller animals and thus sells single dosages. Also, before his rep is flamed, he is a holistic vet and has even written articles in Cat Fancy for when they do their holistic one. He doesn’t sell Frontline, but that’s his personal decision. Some vets I’ve seen refuse to sell Rev. but will Frontline, so…? I also cleared the dosage for my cats with him when I did give Frontline, which is .5mL. Also, you don’t leave any extra sitting around in an open shot glass to evaporate. Come on guys… Think a little bit before you post. The preferred method is an amber vial with a silicon sealing. If you don’t see any at your stores, try your local health food store, often will have stuff like this to keep precious oil in. This will keep it from evaporating while it’s kept in your cabinet (not a frig). I’m not saying that nothing could ever happen to a pet, but a regular dose “could” do something to your pet. But these things are tested for overdosing. I work with rescue agencies and we had a woman give a double dose (I forgot how) of Frontline to the dog. The vet she took him to wasn’t concerned and it had no problems. So everyone calm down. Yes, do your research. But from a reputable source, which MANY on ebay are. Don’t buy from the guy in Tijuana with a negate 2 Feedback. Go for the person in TX with a 2000 POSITIVE feedback. That kind of helps ensure you get the real stuff. Also, there are places that can show you what the real frontline packaging looks like and what to look for in a counterfeit.
I didn’t read all of the replies…however if you have a problem with buying from ebay, buy the large doses from your vet.
I was a vet assistant for 4 years then a groomer at that vet office, we dosed out advantage and frontline the exact same way for dogs and cats coming into board. We took the xlarge tubes opened them and poured them into amber medicine vials….they were both marked on the outside with what they were and the correct dosage per weight.
I am a vet tech. I have been dosing down frontline for my pets several years now, and it works the SAME. At our practice it is $100.20 for a six pack of frontline 0 to 22 lbs……for a six pack of 89 to 132 lbs the cost is $107.00………you do the math 😉
I’m a pharmacist, and have used Advantage this way on my cats for years–but there’s an easier way to measure the doses. Get some Exactamed syringes (mfg: Baxa) from your local compounding pharmacy (find one via the pharmacy search at http://www.iacprx.org/ ). These type of syringes have no needles AND fit perfectly in the nozzle of the Advantage vials! So, in my case, I got a bunch of 1 ml Exactameds with lids, ordered the largest size of Advantage (55+lb dog, 4 ml per vial), then measured out 0.8ml (adult cat dose) into each syringe. Just find out what size ml dose your pet needs, and buy a syringe that’s that size or larger (they make 1, 3, and 5 ml sizes). If you want to leave some Advantage in the original vial, you can use the syringe as a cork. The syringes can be reused almost indefinitely. You just need to look at the packaging on the appropriate vial size for your pet, and look for where they mention how many ml’s are contained in a vial–that’s your dose.
Thanks for the tip of dividing up the dosages in a larger vial of Frontline instead of buying the smaller dosage. We have 2 small dogs, 15 lbs and 12 lbs. The small size costs the most, just about as much as the next larger size. I’m going to try this. We take excellent care of our dogs but the largest has had 2 major surgeries in the last 1 1/2 years and we need to save money where we can. They are house dogs and we’ve always used Frontline Top Spot and have NEVER had a problem with fleas/ticks and never have had a reaction, either.
I have been dividing doses of Advantage, Frontline Plus and now Revolution for about 20 years at the recommendation of the vet. I use the largest dog size and break it down for my cats. I work in cat rescue so this is the only way I would ever be able to keep the fleas off of my animals. I also live in Florida, where we have fleas year round. Last year I had to treat my yard with beneficial nematodes to help kill the fleas because they were so bad. It worked great, especially since I will not use pesticides in my yard. I know, I know, you are saying I will put them on my pets but no my yard. Well the advantages of using them on the animals FAR outweighs the risks of not using them.
Some animals will have a bad reaction from using these products but the numbers are small. Advantage and Frontline products are even safe enough to use every couple of weeks, which is helpful in high flea infestation areas.
I usually purchase from a couple of websites in Australia and have been for years with absolutely no problems. I do realize that there are counterfeits out there and I check all the serial numbers etc. before using them. Even with shipping and handling (which is usually cheaper than U.S. companies) from Australia, it is MUCH MUCH cheaper because they have different regulations than we do. I found it to be even cheaper than ebay. If you think the FDA is doing a great job protecting you, keep purchasing from where you are. I will continue to purchase from where I do.
Kudos to you manymanycats! Many fine cat rescue organizations use your money-saving techniques. Yes, you need to know what you’re doing, but it’s not all that hard to learn. That’s the basic answer to the naysayers.
Have you checked the UK for Revolution/Stronghold? That was where I found the best prices. Have you found a better price than these guys? (If you have, please share!)
http://www.vetmeds4pets.co.uk/catalog/
Their Stronghold Large Dog Teal 6 Pack is currently $55.97. (shipping is a flat $5 bucks no matter how much you buy) Each tube contains 240 mg selamectin in a 2 ml total volume. So, since the cat dose is 45 mg selamectin, 240 mg / 45 mg = 5.333. Call it 5 doses. So, theoretically, there are 5 doses in just one dog tube of 2 ml. 2 ml / 5 = 0.4 ml. This is just under 1/2 ml, to be clear. This is where used, clean 1 ml insulin syringes with the needle yanked out (pliers needed) are very useful. A precise dose of 0.4 ml can be measured out with such a handy tool. Can be purchased at large pet supply like Foster & Smith for a quarter or less each.
I use a 3 ml syringe with a 25 gauge needle to first get the 2 ml out of the dog tube. It’s tricky, and should be done over a plate or something. Then, I use the large syringe to transfer 0.4 ml measured precisely to the above cited needles insulin syringes.
Sometimes mistakes are made, and I only get 4 cat doses out of a dog tube. But, here’s the $ breakdown:
Ideally: 6 dog tubes x 5 cat doses = 30 cat doses for $55.97 + $5 shipping = $60.97.
$60.97/30 doses = $2.0323. So, about 2 bucks per cat for a one month dose of Revolution/Stronghold. Not bad, huh?
Klutzy: 6 dog tubes x 4 cat doses = 24 cat doses for $55.97 + $5 = $60.97.
$60.97/24 doses = $2.540. So, the klutz winds up with a cost of about $2.50 per cat for a one month dose of Revolution/Stronghold. Still pretty good. Especially if you live from paycheck to paycheck.
I have used this supplier five times before without a problem. Currently, the only effective flea treatment in our area is Revolution/Stronghold. The fleas have developed resistance to everything else.
No, I have no connection with these guys (or any supplier) other than as a customer. Anyone who sees this, please don’t spread it around too loudly, or we’ll probably see some powerful lobbyists create some laws preventing this harmless import. To date, all my orders have arrived just fine.
I have no connection with Foster & Smith, either, other than occasionally buying some stuff from them. They are not the cheapest, but the prices usually aren’t too bad, and they’re convenient. *Shrugs*
Um, does anyone have any actual evidence that there is a safer flea treatment for cats than Revolution/Stronghold?
Here’s SELAMECTIN: Safety Summary for Veterinary Use
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2671&Itemid=2948
Note how enormous the LD50 is for mammals–1600mg/pound. Note that cats treated with 4 times the proper dosage for six months showed no adverse effects.
Revolution/Stronghold appears far more safe for my cats than any of the nerve poison type flea treatments; which is pretty much everything else at this time. The insect growth regulators used alone seem safe. But the IGR’s won’t kill adult fleas.
Plus, our resistant Tennessee fleas drink down Frontline, Advantage, etc. and point and laugh. It’s no joke. So far, Revolution/Stronghold still works, and fast.
Our cats are all indoor-only, but in the South, fleas are unavoidable. They always find a way in, somehow. So, when it’s warm, everyone needs a dose every month.
I really feel quite nervous about sharing this info., because if it becomes too widely known, I will could lose my source. But economic times are tough, have been tough for a while, and it’s going to be more of the same for some time. So I will share, and hope it helps out some cats and some people.
And now I must also calmly rant, because the following explains why I am risking sharing my hard-found info.
The U.S. totally blew out it’s budget during Reagonomics like a compulsive shopper with 29 credit cards. We spent more on the Iraq war alone than all the oil in Iraq is worth. Economics isn’t really that hard. A country can be compared to a family. Right now, the U.S. is like a family with credit card debt worth more than it makes.
Don’t believe me? Here ya go:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_debt
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history
You need to know the difference between the deficit and debt. Deficit is how much more the US family adds onto their credit cards in ONE year. (gonna call the U.S. the US family, because it’s a reasonable analogy and people can wrap their heads around it easier). The debt is how much the US family totally owes after years of credit card binging.
What kind of situation is a family in, who owes more credit card debt than the total worth of all it’s assets–the house, the car, the jar full of pennies…? Answer: Not Good.
So times are hard, have been hard, and are gonna be hard for a few more years. You can’t just dig yourself out a hole that deep overnight. The W years over-spending were over-the-top. Look at the charts.
W spent so much, the US family got into very nearly as much debt as during World War II.
Just think about that for a minute. Let it sink in.
And with…what to show for it? WWII was worth saving a chunk of the world from turning into a Nazi horror show. W…what good did he ever do? Name one good thing W did that improved the US family condition. I looked, I truly looked, but I couldn’t find anything but money poured down the toilet. And mean stuff, like trying to reduce benefits to Iraq war vets. Come on! So many other place to cut under his bloated cancerous regime, and that’s who he goes after. Guess they need to hire some slick lobbyists, huh?
But, if you look at the charts and data, there IS hope.
First, it is *possible* for the US family to have a SURPLUS instead of a deficit. That was accomplished several years during Clinton’s administration. That meant, some of that huge credit card debt could be paid off. And was. Look at unemployment, GDP, whatever measure of a family’s well-being you like–W trashed them all. Because he went on a huge credit card spending binge, one that could have lost the family home. He blew all that surplus and much, much more.
W reversed that surplus completely. In 2009, W gave us a deficit of almost 1 1/2 billion. Ouch. All the W years had enormous deficits. In other words, the US family’s credit cards started smoking, they were used on so many spending sprees.
NOBODY could hope to fix so many year’s worth of mess overnight. But, Obama is making progress. Every year, the deficit is steadily declining. The most recent ones are less than half of W deficits. There’s progress.
It’s ironic, and hilariously sad that Republicans always speechify about careful money management, but they’re always the ones who blow out the US family credit cards. A Democrat was the only one so far to give us a surplus. And I don’t give half a damn about parties or ideology…just look at the numbers.
Ever hear of evidence-based medicine? Well, evidence based economics is the only kind worth anything. Look at the numbers. History shows us Democrats are the ones who use the credit cards less or sometimes not at all, and Republicans are the compulsive shoppers who spend and spend and spend. On useless B.S. that doesn’t help the family.
And, I can name one major for sure thing Obama did that was really good. Remember FEMA and New Orleans? Totally W’s fault. He, himself, personally made the clueless incompetent appointees who ran FEMA and caused so many flusterclucks. Obama dumped them all as soon as could, and appointed people who had a clue. I know this for several reasons. 1. I lived through the massive “once in a hundred years” Tennessee floods, and if W had still been in charge, it would have been another New Orleans. Well, it wasn’t. We had FEMA contact us within a week after the rain stopped; a FEMA guy came to our house WHEN HE SAID HE WOULD, inspected all the damage, and we got a check for $6K the next week, the max. amount they could award. Even if you lost your whole house, that’s the max. It’s still a lot better than what happened to New Orleans. 2. I have current insider knowledge about FEMA due to medical connections. A very intelligent MD, whose opinion I trust (how many of those exist? HA!) and he has a close relative–also an MD–in the upper ranks of FEMA medical fieldwork. According to him, Obama’s new people made all in the difference in turning FEMA from its very own disaster area into a useful agency that actually helps people as effectively as currently possible.
No, I don’t really love any particular politician. As my beloved brother says, “They’re all sincere, lying sacks of $#!+.” But some politicians are at least slightly less awful than others. Who cares what any of them say? I don’t listen any more. I just look at what they actually DO, and thanks to the internet, that information is at everyone’s fingertips.
Things might be a lot better in ten years. They could be noticeably better in five years. But there’s twenty combined years of compulsive credit card binging to clean up, and no family can fix that in only a couple years.
I almost deleted this whole post. I may wish I had. I selfishly want to keep my inexpensive source of Revolution/Stronghold safe, and too much publicity might end that. But, I do realize that other people out there have a hard time making ends meet, So, I’m going to share. My little economics rant is sort of a way of forcing myself to be altruistic.
You don’t like my economic data? I don’t care. Prove where I’m wrong, and only the most unbiased sources available will be considered. Nothing’s perfect, but FOX News doesn’t count. Peer-reviewed journals, actual #’s from the budget and oversight sources–hard data only, that’s all I’ll consider. I am very sorry if they are hard to read through, but shouty, bulllying entertainnews just does not hack it. If that’s all you’ve got, leave me alone, go away and berate someone else.
Anybody remember/or looked up, oh, say, Huntley-Brinkley? That is what news reporting discussion is meant to be. No shouting, no bullying. Politeness and courtesy reigned, despite profound opinion difference.
Stuff like FOX News appeals very strongly to angry people. And W created a whole lot of angry, frightened people. Angry people want something to blame, because it makes them feel better. Fox News gives them that. Usually, they give them “the poor.” Which is an easy, defenseless target. Scapegoats make angry, frightened people feel better, and “the poor” make great scapegoats, because like most scapegoats, they’re totally defenseless.
Except… the main problem with scapegoating is, it’s all A Big, Fat Lie.
Famous scapegoat examples: Nazi’s/Jews; White people/Black or any other color people; WWII-era Japanese/Chinese or anyone else who had stuff they wanted… Google plenty more if you want, but I never did learn of a scapegoat actually responsible for the problems they were blamed for.
Look at the numbers. The working poor pay more total federal income tax than the super-rich. That’s because even if you aren’t earning enough to feed yourself on Ramen, you still pay a total of 14% + into Social Security. And Social Security tax, my friends, IS a federal income tax. It is spent JUST like any other tax dollars collected–quick, fast and in a hurry.
I could go on, but won’t.
Except…
I have known both Westport & New York multi-millionaires and dirt poor families, and everything in between. Guess what? They’re all people. Just people. Some are great, some are awful; they’re all people and they run whole spectrum.
F. Scott Fitzgerald was WRONG about the very rich. They are NOT different from you and me. Try actually meeting a few. You’ll find the major difference between the rich and other people is that the rich have more money. They’re just people who *at this moment* don’t worry about their next meal.
Um, except the numbers show the rich contribute a much smaller % of their income than the poor, working, and middle classes. (I can’t help it–I must be honest to the data, though leaving it out would be more elegant,)
OK, Mr. Fitzgerald, I’ll give you that one, The rich ARE different–they’re a bunch of cheap, stingy Scrooges compared to the rest of us. And they’re ruder in traffic and generally less polite, too. Can’t find any studies to suggest otherwise, and there’s way too much data showing that’s the way it is.
But I wouldn’t call that being any *better.*
I am so going to regret this.., Shut up and hit Post, Think of the kittens who can’t afford safe flea treatment. And their broke owners. Share your minuscule “wealth.” Think Of The Kittens!
C’mon, just think of the kittens.
Sigh. *Resignation, mild sadness, apprehension…*
All right, Here. I truly hope this helps the world a little.
I truly hope some good deeds don’t get punished too much.
Dear God! Before you post something next time, please be certain to take all your meds. This is a little site about saving money. Not a place for some ideologue to rant her craziness. No, I’m not going to engage you further. You can call me names, tell me I must be deficient in some way because I’m not quoting facts. I’m not one of those people that spend all their time doing crap like that. I have a life, and it’s to busy to engage with crazy right now. Go to Huffpost or MSNBC to post these kinds of rants, you’ll be lauded as a hero and you will be welcomed with the chant “one of us” repeatedly by your fellow zombies. This is NOT the place for your kind of divisive speech. But a place set up by a very nice man trying to help others save money. Please THINK next time before putting out this kind of venomous rhetoric in a place where it does not belong. Thank you!
You can get a 12 pack extra large Frontline Plus from Candadavetcare.com for $114.16 with $2.99 shipping. No tax. I have been purchasing from them and product is in original pk and works just like stuff purchased from vet. I have a Newfy, Heeler and 2 cats. Newfy get whole dose of course and I can dose my other dog and cats and still have some left to let my daughter use for her dogs.
If you are using Frontline, they now have the generic of it being sold. The cheapest I’ve seen thusfar is called PetArmour. Walmart is selling all sizes for $28, but Sam’s Club is selling for $25. So save yourself even more money. :o) I’ve used it on an animal I’m fostering. I’m still dosing down the Large Dog size Revolution for all my cats, this way I’m treating for heartworm and other parasites. Hopefully they will come out with a generic version of Rev. in the near future.
Hmmm I did this with the large dog size and divided it up amongst my 3 cats using the correct dosage but now we have a flea infestation 🙁 does the dog stuff not work on cats? I see the active ingredients have slightly different percentages does it make a big difference? Or was the Frontline (bought off eBay I might add) duff?
I’m not certain what “duff” is, but if it’s bad, then yes. I suppose it could be, if you purchased it from a source on ebay that does not have a good or reliable feedback. You say that you used the correct dosage, could I ask what that is? I have seen various doses recommended. But what I received from my vet and that I verified with other sources, is .05mL per cat, unless you have a twenty pound plus behemoth. :o) These things are tested to be “overdosed”. Otherwise how could they do 40-80lb range doses? It also could be that you hit a really bad flea season and Frontline can only do so much for your environment. Each year, I treat everything. Pets, house and yard. I have rarely seen a flea inside, and never had an infestation. I go to my feed store and purchase the carpet spray that will last anywhere (depending upon which brand) from 4-10 months.
But the simple answer to your question, is yes, it works. Did it for years before I switched to Rev. Work in animal rescue group and it works for us/them. Same for breeders I know and apparently the thousands online that have been using it. So again, that leaves you with either wrong dosage, bad Frontline, or most likely, you also need to treat your home and yard, especially if having a bad season in your area.
Oh, don’t forget that they now have generic Frontline sold at Walmart for $28 or $25 at Sam’s.
Good luck!
If the Frontline isn’t working that well for you, try Advantage (can also be split up) for a while, the go back to Frontline. I have had vets tell me that this seems to work better and that they think the fleas start to build up a tolerance for one type if used regularly. By switching back and forth, they have a harder time building the tolerance.
And yes, fleas season this year has been horrific so it may take a while to get them under control. As I stated in an earlier post, I used beneficial nematodes in my yard. They eat the flea larva and attack the adult fleas. They do not bother the beneficial bugs in the yard, just some of the bad ones…don’t ask me how they know which is which, nature designs things to work. I used it a few years ago when I had a very very bad flea problem and within a couple of days I could tell a difference and within 7-10 days the problem was under control. You can get them from a nursery or online. Just make sure you get the correct ones for your region of the country.
So had a ‘duh!’ moment and found I had 2 vials of Cat Frontline all along and could have avoided the whole flea fiasco… sigh. Oh well. Put the old stuff on the cat, instant dead fleas so I think the stuff I got from eBay was dud, will go back and leave them a stinky review after this.
Hello everyone,
I have a 4lb toy yorkie that is 1 and a half years old. I am thinking of buying the Frontline (ex large dose) and giving him the .67ml dosing for 0-22 lb dog. I have read all the great posts and most are reassuring me that buying in bulk and dividing the dosage is the way to go!! Cost effective. Should I give him half of (0.67ml) due to his small size?
I buy the new PetArmor Plus only found at Sam’s and Walmart. It’s the exact same chemicals and amount as Frontline Plus. They cost the same for a box of 3 applications regardless of the weight you’re buying for, so it can be hard to find the extra-large doig size in stock. It has become popular to determine the correct amount and dose the dogs yourself.
I use .031 ml per pound of body weight on my 4 dogs, and I guaranteed 30 days without any problem on my 4 dogs!
Our 13 lbs. maltepoo suddenly came up with a lot of fleas this summer. I bought the 45-88 lbs. Frontline from Costco after reading that I can divide the dosage. I thought I’d divide one applicator into 3 dosages, but after reading your blog here, I could even divide one into 5 dosages, based on the weight of our dog. I used my wife’s insulin syringe by injecting it towards the opening and withdrew the right amount (.4 cc). I taped the small hole and put the applicator in a sealed bottle.
I then dropped the liquid between the shoulders of our dog. After a day, all her fleas were gone and she’s not scratching anymore. I just need to vacuum the whole house again, and repeat the process every 30 days.
Thanks for these cost-saving tips.
Why doesn’t it matter to you that the dog may have kidney failure or worse because you put a pesticide on it? Did you not read all the posts? Anyone that thinks it’s ok to put pesticides on a dog should not have dogs. I can’t even believe they allow those products to be sold!
People, People, People……….no one likes the idea of pesticides on their pets. We are not all ignorant. Most of us have tried dio earth, garlic, etc., etc. I have Shelties and cats in flea country Florida. I use dio earth on the pups, but unless I want hairless tapeworm infested dogs, or to bathe them all every day, there is no option. I have a few that are extra flea sensitive and to watch them chew and cry and pull their hair out is not why I have pets. I divide my dosage from the big pack to save money, and have had no problems in some 10 years with this method. If you do not have dogs with long hair, who go in and out, and live in the sandy South, you have no idea what you are talking about. The fleas are a nightmare for the animals and the humans. Advantage or Frontline measured into a syringe is the most cost efficient….not sure about the generic, yet. I also worm my own dogs, give my own vaccines to dogs and horses, and make use of old remedies on the horses that involve epsom salts, aloe, etc. Use your brain and do your research…don’t buy into all the hype.
Do you really save money when you have to pay thousands later on because your pet went into convulsions or got cancer?
Cyndiann… Yes, we do save money by doing that and yes, our goal is to give our animals cancer.
Gawd, why do people like you have to pollute a polite and congenial discussion group? Take your Jihad elsewhere. I’ll also have you know that I go to a holistic vet with several accreditations, including homeopathic/Chinese medicine for animals. He’s written articles for several magazines, including Cat Fancy. Done radio, etc. He tries to do all kinds of alternatives if possible, including acupuncture/pressure and is qualified to make homeopathic remedies, and he still recommends the use of a flee/tick preventative. Yes, he would prefer to use Revolution or a few other products over Frontline, but not for the reasons you list, simply because he believes there are better things, that are doing more, out there right now than Frontline. And that is a topic that could be politely discussed, but started elsewhere, since that is not the subject of discussion on this page. But you would probably have a problem with ANYTHING we would use to treat our animals, including protecting them from heartworms.
So strap on your grenade vest and visit another cafe, this one is closed to you. I would recommend no one engage her further from this point on. I’m starting to regret doing it myself, usually the best way to handle nuts is to ignore them, but sometimes you have to face up to “evil”. Besides, I’ve already written all this. lol
Eternal vigilance is the price for freedom. :o)
@SJC – That’s one of the best comments I’ve read in a while. Thanks for the smile. 🙂
I understand that it is not ideal to put these chemicals on our animals BUT you have to weigh the risks. Yes I have tried the holistic approach and found that DE and other stuff just did not live up to its reputation and was like doing nothing at all. The nematodes on the other hand worked great on my flea infested yard…took about 7 days, then I had a flea free yard (at least it seemed that way). I will continue to use them but they are not 100% guaranteed.
If you do nothing or keep doing the things that do not work, your pet pays for it dearly. Working rescue, I have seen what fleas can do to animals from allergies to death, especially young or sick animals. It is very important to keep the fleas off of them and the actual risk from these products is small enough that I will continue to use them for this purpose.
When I pulled my dog from the county shelter he had heartworms. The vets gave him poison to kill them, which worked, or he would be dead now. I went through multiple types of chemo, which is poison, to be cancer free today. So I think that you have to weigh the pros and cons.
I believe there can be better living through chemistry and flea products show that…just ask a dog or cat that is in distress from constant scratching because of fleas.
Sure would like to understand why the Frontline Plus dose for a 15 lb. cat is the same for a cat of 6 lbs. Has anyone tried to split the cat dose between 2 small cats and had good results?
I don’t care about the money, I’m worried about giving more toxins to my cats than necessary.
Ander, These things are tested to be safe even if “overdosed”, not that I recommend it. Obviously there are instances of adverse reactions, just like with humans and some drugs. I actually read the info before, but it’s too late, and even if early, probably wouldn’t remember it correctly (You can probably find it with some Googling, maybe FDA site will have info). But that’s why you can have such a variance in weight and have it be safe. For an inside cat, I would recommend using Revolution, since you don’t have to worry about ticks and Rev. treats so many other things. I do the same thing with it, per my vets instructions, I buy the largest dose he carries, and put it in an amber vial. One dose of the hmmm, it’s not the LARGEST size for dogs, but I think the one that goes up to the 80s?? Anyway, that one will treat the 5 inside cats and I have enough for another dose to get the outside cat that I guess is ours as well, since I wait up for him every night to put him in the garage (so he doesn’t fight to defend his turf) . Anyway, for $18 a month (I just buy a single dose at a time). You could save even more if you purchased from a place like Petshed.com (though I have to admit it’s been years since I’ve ordered from them) or similar. You can’t treat 6 cats with the cheap stuff in the stores for that price.
But if still going to give Frontline ( though I would switch to the Walmart generic of it), and you have a 6lb cat and are that worried, and price isn’t an issue (thought that is kind of the whole purpose of this discussion), then buy the one for kittens… Easy-peasy. Or buy the Frontline for dogs and use the correct dosage for the size cat you have, that way you can get it “exact” for their size. But again, I’d just use Rev. or one of the others for cats that also treats for parasites and heartworms.
SJC, people like me do our homework and have scientific evidence to back up what we are saying. Frontline is made from fipronil.
Fipronil in parts-per-trillion can mutate proteins and kill human liver cells. Research now shows that even minuscule exposure is toxic to vertebrates including humans and pets. Desulfinyl fipronil and fipronil sulfone are two of the chemicals left over after fipronil decays. They result from photodegradation, biotransformation or oxidization mechanisms. Both of these chemicals are more toxic than fipronil itself. They are also very persistent in the environment. A person can get an overdose of fipronil merely by petting a dog. Consider what it does to the dog!
http://www.sailhome.org/Concerns/BodyBurden/Sources3/Fipronil.html
Fipronil is 1 of 16 pesticides selected to be monitored in a study sponsored by industry and planned by the EPA. The study set out to pay families $970 to videotape their children after exposing them to pesticides and other dangerous chemicals for 2 years.
Intentions about the study leaked out, and after more than a year of pressure the EPA said it would not ‘run’ the study.
Although the EPA is no longer providing direct funding for the study, it is being undertaken as a ‘private’ study by the American Chemistry Council.
Children will still be intentionally exposed. The study intends to use children from birth to age 3.
Those who say there is no harm, will you offer up *your* family to be tested?
If you use Frontline your children are being exposed anyway.
I know that this post has been extremely long and drawn out since it’s creation, but I did read that someone said something about the diet of an animal to help protect/prevent fleas. I just want to know what they are feeding their dogs. I recently switched all of my animals to an all natural/holistic diet with a proven American company that has had no incident reports since it’s creation and my dogs and cats still get fleas. Also they mentioned only treating one pet and not having any other problems. My 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 2 rats all get fleas even with just treating the 2 dogs that go outdoors. In fact, I have treated them all summer with Frontline plus and my 2 cats still have fleas after using this product for over 5 months. Obviously people have their own opinions and not everything that everyone says is going to be the truth because people do lie, especially when trying to prove a point. The worst you could do is talk to your vet about splitting medication. If they say that there really is no harm in doing it, but he recommends against it, then that’s the risk you take. And for people that are arguing about using pesticides in your home. Unless you live in the wild, (which I don’t see since you are using a computer) you don’t live “green”. If you are freaking out about pesticides and not freaking about your microwave giving you cancer, then you are a hypocrite.
Have a nice day folks!
So does this theory work in reverse? My Great Dane has quadrupled in size since i bought some frontline. I have the 22 to 44lbs stuff. Now he weighs 120lbs. can i double or triple this dosage so i can use up what i got?
Please advise>
Thanks
“SJC, people like me do our homework and have scientific evidence to back up what we are saying.”
No you didn’t. You looked at a study posted on a website that you already agree with. The “study” hopes all over the place and relies on unverifiable and sometimes illegal studies (asking parents to expose children to pesticides and filming them is extremely unethical and illegal in this country). The “study” is comparing the spraying of Fipronil on rice fields to applications to pets, apples and oranges. How much Fipronil gets on gloves while petting a dog has nothing to do with absorption for toxicity, for example you will always have the Streptococcus bacteria on you, yet you don’t always have Strep.
Oh and I love that you recommend diatomaceous earth which is also toxic to humans and animals and kills beneficial bugs as well as pests.
Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms. It is NOT toxic to humans or pets.
As a groomer of 30+ years, I feel like I have to add my 2 cents. I’ve been grooming since the good old days of flea powders and industrial strength dips and I am sooooo grateful for the the flea products we have today. Are they perfect? NO! But they are 100 times better than what was available when I started grooming in the early 80s.
Flea powders are inhaled by both the animal and humans and for the most part, don’t work. Flea collars are a joke (although there are a number of good tick collars) Why they are still used is beyond me.
Dips….possibly the worst solution ever! Because I used dips on a daily basis, I was exposed at a much higher rate. I now am so sensitive to the chemicals in dips and many pesticides that they cause fainting, vomiting and dizziness anytime I’m around them. When we left dips mixed up over night, the bottom of the bottles would be melted through from the dip. And you want to put that on your dog? Besides, they have no residual effect whatsoever. Unless you are controlling demodec or sarcoptic mange, don’t use dips!
Flea shampoos are for the most part pesticides, even so called natural flea products can be harmful for some pets. They also only kill the fleas on the animal. They do nothing for new fleas.
Advantage and Frontline, although not perfect, are by far the best flea products yet. Fleas do seem to be getting resistant to them, so I switch back and forth. One big problem is that people don’t follow the directions and apply the product to the hair and not the skin. If it doesn’t get to the animal’s skin, it won’t do any good; period. I don’t like using my animal for flea control, but this has been the worst summer ever for fleas where I live. Not only do I have my 3 dogs and 4 cats, but I am fostering a friend’s 2 dogs and I’ve been recently adopted by 2-3 stray cats. I can’t possibly treat them all with retail priced Frontline or Advantage.
I’ve been using Advantage (NOT Advantix or Advantage Multi) on both dogs and cats at the rate of one drop per lb. My vet recommended it when my husband became disabled and we had 8 animals of our own. It worked like a dream! It can also be used again in a week for severe flea infestations. In all the years I’ve used it, I’ve had one reaction from an elderly cat that I accidentally overdosed. He vomited once and was fine.
I have also used Frontline by splitting doses in a syringe. Although messy and complicated, it works too. I don’t use the same formulation on my cats though.
I have found the best approach is to spend a weekend on flea duty with follow up treatments in 21 days. First, I use Natural Animal Flea Shampoo for all the critters. It kills fleas almost on contact and contains no pesticides. Then I clean all the crates, wash the bedding and vacuum like crazy. The next day after the bath, I use Frontline or Advantage on all the animals. I try to do it right before bedtime so they can be locked in their crates till it dries. This is especially important with Vectra which is deadly to cats. (Of course, if this is the first time using these products, you want to keep an eye on your pet, so don’t use it before bedtime) Treating the yard and home is essential whether you choose borax, DE, nematodes or commercial sprays, etc.
Fleas and ticks carry diseases, debilitate your pets and just plain make them miserable. I’ve seen pets die from severe infestations of both fleas and ticks.
Do your research, do what you feel is best for your family and pet, but please, do something! I’m so tired of telling people their pet has fleas, only to be told, “oh, we know, he always has fleas.” Really??? would you like to be bitten by chiggers or mosquitoes 24 hrs a day?
Sorry this is so long, but I deal with this all day, every day.
I have been a veterinarian for 5 years and must say that I have seen thousands of animals that use frontline. Out of thousands of animals, maybe 2-3 I have seen had true reactions to frontline, none of which were life threatening. Unfortunately animals (just like people) can have allergic reactions to ANYTHING at anytime.
What I HAVE seen though are HUNDREDS of flea related diseases. I have had to witness the death of many kittens from flea anemia.
I have seen many horrific cases of animals with flea allergies so bad that they have bleeding skin, no fur, and are thin because they spend all their time and energy from scratching themselves. I also have witnessed these animals euthanized because the owner can not afford/or will not comply with the monthly flea preventative.
Let me name a few other flea related diseases (some potentially fatal) that both you and your pet can get:
tapeworms
Bubonic plaque
Flea borne typhus
Cat scratch fever (bartonella henselae)
bartonella grahamii
bartonella taylorii
bartonella quintana
Now realize these are factual diseases that can occur if your pet has fleas…
I have yet to see one case of cancer or death that I can directly relate to the use of frontline.
Please for your pets sake use a reputable flea prevention.. namely frontline, advantage, revolution.
As for splitting your large doses of frontline… I’m not making any recommendations on splitting it because since it is an EPA product it is illegal to do so.
But I do it on my pets.
And for the folks out there claiming it causes cancer.. come on really?!
what about the cell phone and computer you use everyday?
Thank you for your post, sir. I liked it very much. Very yseful and educational. 🙂
I would like to ask you if you know of any feline flea treatment that is as safe and effective as Revolution/Frontline–that is, selamectin.
In our area, (Middle Tennessee) the fleas have developed profound resistance to everything else (Advantage, Frontline, etc., etc.) except Revolution aka Stronghold–that is, selamectin. That still works here, and quite effectively. The insect growth regulators are still useful too, but IGR’s don’t kill adult fleas of course.
According to the SELAMECTIN: Safety Summary for Veterinary Use I found, this med has a relatively enormous safety margin. Tested mammal LD50’s were 1600mg/lb! Admittedly, rats and mice have less sensitive nervous systems than cats, but:
“Cats infected with Dirofilaria immitis (heartworm) treated monthly at 4x the therapeutic dose during 6 months tolerated treatment very well. In another study male cats treated 16-17 times every 2 weeks at 3x the therapeutic dose didn’t suffer any detrimental effect on their health or reproduction.”
While toxicity is possible with anything, (including water), this product seems to have a considerable margin of safety.
However, that goes for felines. Anyone with a dog; particularly certain pedigree breeds, considering selamectin really should read this data sheet first. Because:
“WARNING: Dogs of some breeds are sensitive to selamectin, other macrocyclic lactones or other drugs (e.g. emodepside) that can cross the blood-brain barrier. They can suffer more or less serious adverse effects if treated at dose rates higher than the recommended ones. Consequently dosing must be as accurate as possible. This is the case for Collies and related breeds, which have a mutation in the MDR-1 gene that affects the blood-brain barrier and makes it more permeable to such compounds than in dogs without this mutation. Besides Collies, other dog breeds have shown similar problems, although the MDR-1 mutation has not been confirmed in all of them. The breeds more affected by this mutation are (% frequency): Collie (70%), Long-haired Whippet (65%), Australian Shepherd (50%, also mini), McNab (30%), Silken Windhound (30%), English Shepherd (15%), Shetland Sheepdog (15%), English Shepherd (15%), German Shepherd (10%), Herding Breed Cross (10%). Other less affected breeds are: Old English Sheepdog, Border Collie, Berger Blanc Suisse, Bobtail, Wäller. The only way to be sure that a dog is affected or not by the MDR-1 gene defect is to test for it. As more dogs are tested it is likely that the mutation is discovered in other breeds, or that the frequencies change.”
So, it appears that in general, selamectin is safer for cats, and dog owners of certain breeds would do well to check the breed list, and if they can afford to test for the MDR-1 gene defect, do so. But, many dog breeds are not mentioned in the warning…so this shouldn’t alarm, say, owners of Golden Retrievers much. 🙂
Source:
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2671&Itemid=2948
I always keep in mind that my pets can become allergic or have a reaction at any time, so if I am giving them Frontline, or any other treatment, including medications that are new to them, I make sure it is in the morning on a weekday, so if there are problems, the vet’s office will be open and I won’t have to drive 60 miles to the nearest (and very costly) emergency vet or get my vet out of bed. In fact, my husband and I do the same thing for our own medications, if they are new, so if we would have an alarming reaction, there are all kinds of medical resources available, instead of just an emergency room. So far, the cats and us have not had these problems, though.
My vet told me about this Frontline trick when I saved some dumped puppy mill dogs, and they were totally infested with fleas. I have done it on my cats before too, but they are almost entirely indoor cats, and so I rarely need to treat them for anything.
Great idea Pat about doing new treatment and drugs on the weekdays. My local emergency room is so expensive it is cost prohibitive. Thanks for the suggestion.
I’m with you all the way vet4fleaproducts!!
Frontline+ is our product of choice. Been ‘splitting’ vials for years.
If you dont want to purchase off ebay – try
http://www.thriftyvet.com
ABSOLUTELY the best frontline prices anywhere (I dont work for them, just have been purchasing for a couple years from them)
Been doing this since I received an admittedly (via company) ineffective dosing of frontline, purchased at full price from my vet. Had a huge infestation but using this method plus precor in the house we have had no fleas and both dogs are healthy and happy.
Thank you so much, and 100% in agreement. Been doing this for years and will spread the word……
Ive done aq lot of research/experimenting since finding this site. According to the aximum pounds assigned to each vile size, the dose should be .03ml per pound. For example, the vile for 23-44 lbs is 1.34 ml 1.34 ml divided by 44 = .03. If you give that to a 23 pound dog, they are receiving DOUBLE the dose at .06 per lb. Think of the dose a 4 lb chihuahua gets from the smallest vile!! The hard part is figuring the small doses. A 4 lb chihuahua gets .12 ml You must have a 1 cc syringe with 100 divisions and try for the.02 inbetween two of them. Am I computing this correctly?
Marvin Von Renchler
Your calculation is correct. Don’t get too hung up on the exact measurement when administering it with a syringe. Just remember that straight from the package your dog would be getting about 5x the amount necessary (same as a 22lb dog), so if you just round it to .2ml you would be OK. Thats still .2 instead of .67 the instructions would have you use. I have a 3 ML syringe, and I just round to the nearest 10th of an ML (its marked in 1/10th increments)
I agree completely with what Ed the Vet said here below in a earlier post. I have two small yorkies so I tried splitting the Frontline Plus dose. It was difficult to do and they both had fleas right away. Obviously they weren’t getting the correct mix. I went back to giving the full dose.
>>>>> Additionally, if you split up the doses, its alcohol component (which is responsible for the product being absorbed into the skin) can evaporate, so none of the product may be absorbed on subsequent doses.
Also I saw a segment on national TV about drugs for humans and pets being sold cheaply on the internet or at flea markets (no pun intended!). The detectives in the report said that if anything is priced very cheap, it probably is stolen and/or counterfit. You risk giving out of date or phony medication. It is almost impossible to tell from the packaging.
For those not reading all the posts. First, no one here is advocating purchasing from a flea market or other dubious place. However, there IS the sharing of information on best place and prices. Frankly, I think just going to Sam’s Club and buying the generic of Frontline is probably the best you can do, it’s what our rescue groups are doing, for a couple dollars more it’s sold at Walmart. Second, yes it WOULD evaporate, if you left it open for a month. But again, no one here is advocating that. As I posted before, I use an amber vial with a silicon seal around the lid (when I used to have any left, more animals now) and never had any lost to evaporation. Got to think a bit when you do this stuff guys, or at least follow the path already trod by others. Someone else said it was very messy and difficult to do. I have never found that to be the case myself. The method I use, is as follows; I empty the contents into said vial. Then use a syringe to pull out the desired amount (to make it easier I usually mark the amount with red), put on animal and repeat for the next. Easy-peasy. :o)
Now Ive heard they have added something to advantage and the old formula will be discontinued—and that the additional chemical is problematic—anyone hear of this? I dont want the new advantage but can t find the old formula anywhere.
I think we have established that if you DO actually decide to use frontline you should get it at a reputable place like a vet, pet store, costco, etc. People who choose to buy on ebay are taking a small but definite risk. Maybe they dont really like their dogs. I have trouble believing that you are able to measure accurately with a syringe, however the recommended dose ranges are apparently broad anyhow. Hypothetically I dont see a problem with buying the 89lb dog range, splitting it in exactly half, use on two dogs, and save some money. If you are competent or are reading this comment you probably can do it. The original thread was to help save pet owners money not discuss morality, hippie alternatives, evaporation, or if we go to hell if we use frontline. Personally I use frontline on my two dogs once every 2 or 3 months and they have never had a single flea. I think we can agree that vets are people who care deeply for animals, and usually have 20 cats, no boyfriend, and they recommend frontline all day long.
Charles, That’s not fair to say that people who purchase on ebay “don’t like their dogs”. Come on, let’s keep it civil. Especially with ebay having been turned into almost more of a storefront than Amazon. Most things I’ve found sold on ebay now are from businesses anyway. Oh, and Amazon is almost always cheaper now for the items I’m looking for, weird. I have purchased Frontline from ebay, but it was years ago and from a reputable seller inside the US.
Also, you said that you “have trouble believing that you are able to measure accurately with a syringe”. That is what a syringe is for… To measure accurately. It’s why they use them in hospitals to administer medicines that would kill you if the wrong amount is given. That is why it is recommended that you use one to measure Frontline, or Revolution out.
All my vets have been men, so I won’t comment about their having a boyfriend or not. lol Wait, was one female, and she was hot… But unfortunately married. 🙂
I have bought my frontline off ebay for years and I love it. I buy the large size and use it to dose as lissted for small dogs.
I have tried the mega dosage of frontline that you split up and dose the animal yourself. Mine was for cats. (supposedly) It came in a squeeze package that you put into a vial and then administer. The first dosage was fine. The second dosage made my male cat sick and I have to wonder what happened. Was it because the package had been opened and sat for a month? Was this actually a dog dosage? Does it make a difference if it’s for dogs or cats? (many sites say it doesn’t matter it is the same formula) As far as Ebay goes, we do lots of shopping on eBay because the prices are so good, and yes it does help to stay with reputable (99%) sellers. However I will not be gambling with my cats well being as I did before. (and feel horrible and stupid because of what happened) I will continue to buy from Ebay but I will be sure to buy only the closed, marked for cats, new in box items. No more mega-dose-super-deals for me.
Please correct the formula. I believe there is an error in your formula. Listed under More Accurate Dosing you say “If you take the largest size for each category and divide by the vial size, you get 0.0305 ml per pound every time”. Actually, if you divide, for example, the 45-88 pounds with a vial containing 2.68 ml, 88 divided by 2.68 equals 32.836.
So to get 0.0305 you would divide the vial by the largest weight. the formula would read 2.68 divide by 88 equals 0.0305
Thank you for sharing this information!
~Connie~
I have used this method in the past and I did not find it messy. Also, like you, I keep three syringes marked for each size dog. 🙂
Interesting posts. I am reminded of something attributed to Mark Twain: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
vet4fleaproducts gave the best post on this in the entire thread. Read it. Then read it again.
As for my creatures, fipronil is fipronil, regardless of what is says on the label. We get the lowest price per ml we can find, usually the large dog dose, and simply do the math on an approximate weight basis. Works great on various sized dogs and cats. Rough approximation is more than adequate for dose calculation. The variables of fur density, time in the sun, genetic variability, general activity level, etc. all create far more variables than you can deal with trying to get the dose precise by weight. Petarmor brand is about 1/2 price of Frontline. Molecules (and fleas) have no idea what is written on the label, or how large the bottle was.
As for toxicity, fipronil is not so to mammals. It works on bugs because their GABA receptors in their nervous system are different than mammals’. Sort of like a lock fitting a key. The key fits the bugs’ lock, not mammals. Very low human toxicity. It breaks down readily when exposed, especially to sunlight.
The great majority of it is used in crop and structural insect control, so your use on pets is a literal drop in the bucket in nature, compared to spraying it on rice fields.
But the above will not be convincing if you are predisposed to have a certain set of beliefs.
Cheers
i sprayed my yard or you can get the granules it killed the fleas and i didnt have to use anything on my pet sprayed the yard with out door insect spray concentrate
i buy the largest dose of the real brand name flea medication from a well known pet store, & then break it down, according to manufacturers doses by weight…simple logic…. :]
As a foster mom for dogs for a licensed rescue in the state I live in, they (the rescue) learned a LONG time ago to buy the BIGGEST does of Frontline, and than emtpy ALL the vials into one (several actually) ‘tightly sealed’ container – in any given month, we are dosing out 45-60 dogs. We also use the syringes (needles removed) to dose out the dogs accurately and as we go by their ‘actual’ weight, money IS saved, and the animals are not getting more meds than their body size needs.
For the ‘natural nut’ who keeps spewing about us poisoning our animals – fleas spread disease. I personally have nursed back to health puppies whom were NOT given doses of Frontline (and some used other ‘off brands’) of flea/tick preventative from the massive WORMS they now carry. Ever see a dog wretching and coughing non stop to infestation of worms? plus the bloat it causes? those worms end up in their lungs, did you know that? yes I realize your full of crap posting was done a LONG time ago, but for those that wish to save money by either using ‘store’ brands or homeopathic ways, the results will be the same: worms, that can and do cause death.
Look up the life cycle of a round worm, as well as the tape worm. See what can potentially happen to humans if you bring that into YOUR home.
I won’t stop medicating my pets because someone thinks they are being poisoned. I have lived and dealt with death from the affects of people NOT protecting their animals, or deciding : they are just fleas. Big deal. Clean them up. Give the animal a bath. Big whoop.
I lost a dog to a tick. It was painful to watch him die. I also fostered a dog whom was found in a ditch, presumably by the ‘owners’ who didnt want to help their animal (he was chipped by the original adoption rescue several months earlier) by taking him to the vet when the paralysis set in. They just let him there to die. Someone called in about a dog in a ‘latrine ditch’ and it was assumed he was dead. Thank God the AC officers took him to a vet upon pick up, and once the vet saw the ticks (he had over 50 on his body), began removing them.
Within a week the dog was ‘almost’ normal. The ticks CAUSED the paralysis. That dog is now living with a family in the north and loved beyond relief.
eBay – common sense. If a seller is new, don’t buy. If a seller specializes IN animal products and has been online at least 3-5 years? probably safe to assume they are NOT selling counterfeits.. HOWEVER .. depends on where they get THEIR stock from and whom they are selling through/for. Ask the questions.
I choose to only buy through my vet, I buy the biggest and dose them out by weight myself – we buy 7 big vials and they last for 12 months for 2 dogs, so right there, I saved the cost of 5 vials, plus we also dose out at every 6 weeks. We keep our dogs on Heartguard all year long as well, partially due to the dewormer (I take in sick dogs, and it helps keep them worm free as well). Common myth regarding ticks is that they freeze off in the winter .. not so (this goes for fleas as well, they can live in a crevice in your home and ‘wake up’ when they feel vibrations, feed, and begin making their children.. ) Any warm blooded animal can be a carrier and depending on when they jumped off, they can be waiting just about anywhere. Squirrels and rabbits and some birds do carry them.
Great idea … I started to read thru the comments, there are many. I hadn’t thought about the range of application … and what that says about what is an acceptable dosage. I’m an ex “lab rat” so I actually bought a pipette to measure out the dosage … but given the range of acceptable dosage that was overkill. But now I can measure fluids VERY accurately 😉 As a lab rat, I also bought some eppendorf tubes (off of ebay) and I keep the left over fluid in them (they seal very tightly) which keeps the alchohol from evaporating and changing what amount of medicine you’d be dispensing…. but any tiny vial with a good seal would do!
I have purchased frontline plus on Ebay and must say it is a crap shoot.
Twice I have been sold counterfeit Frontline…… serial number on box and product did not match and there are other tell tale signs that you can learn about on Ebay’s website. I no longer will purchase on ebay and have found the more reputable sellers such as Fosters and Smith have comparable pricing anyway.
One last comment about Ebay….. the sellers I purchase counterfeit Frontline from were all highly rated with numerous feedbacks and high scores. I do not think they even knew it was counterfeit!!!
Begarz, Hopefully you reported to the sellers it was counterfeit and filed with Paypal and ebay to get a refund? Also, when you run into something like that, I think you are supposed to file a report… Is it with the FDA??? Anyway, they used to ask people to report stuff like that. Anyway, with so many clones of Frontline now, you really don’t need to look for the best price on Ebay, when most charge the same price for any size (basically subsidizing the XL dog people). Usually around $25. I have a 55lb dog, buy the XL size and should, from 3 doses, have enough Until Dec, which depending on temps, is when I will stop and give his body a rest for about 5 months. Also, I don’t put on every 30 days exactly. For fleas, unless you have an outbreak, it’s supposed to be good for 90 days, so why dose indoor cats every month? Every 45 days, unless there is an outbreak, should be more than adequate for your average dog. Same thing for Heartworm protection. If you understand the life-cycle of the heartworm, you would be MORE than safe dosing every 4 months, until the time to stop dosing in your region is over. And you can buy Ivermectin at your feed store and probably have enough for your, and everyone you knows, animals for the season… Then have some left over for next year. All for under $40.
Agggh, Sorry about the bad grammar (crap, almost misspelled that) above. That’s what happens kids, when you post at almost 3am. lol
If you have your dog on a species appropriate diet, real meat, bones and organ meats, their health is much greater than a kibble fed dog and heartworm “preventatives” aren’t needed. A change in diet prevents the need to poison your dog! Ivermectin especially can kill a dog in the collie family. Frontline is the brand name for fipronil which is harmful to pets and humans alike. Please don’t use it. There is no need to give dangerous products to them when there are safe products like diatomaceous earth and nematodes.
So does it matter if poisons are counterfeit or not? They still cause seizures and death.
I know this is an old post but if anyone sees this I thought I’d mention I have been doing this for over ten years now. The local humane society actually sales people the largest dose and gives them a dose chart based on weight so we can save money doing it this way. My dogs only had fleas once in their lives, I moved into a new house already infested with fleas. As soon as I put the frontline plus on my dogs as recommended by the humans society all the fleas were gone and a pest control friend came out and sprayed my house and yard to kill the tiny monsters. Problem solved, have never seen another flea and I only put one dose a year on my dogs at the beginning of summer. Call your local humane societies, they sale it discounted and give you the syringes and dose chart. No harm done. Vets just want your money. They aren’t regulated like human doctors, watch the undercover report on vets ripping people off by insisting on doing procedures that aren’t even needed. If the pets owner consents and pays for it then they haven’t broken any laws but are they really ethical?
My vet told me to do this with the larger doses years ago and he is a wonderful vet! Also I go light in the dosing too, I would rather stay on the safest side possible with the chemicals. I only use it every three months on my dogs and it works great!
I’ve down dosed for decades.
Rescues do the same to save money.
There is nothing improper, dangerous, or risky about this.
Vets hold their customers hostage.
I’m now using Sentry Fiproguard MAX and it works as well if not better than Frontline.
I have a 50-lb and an 85-lb dog. I’ve always bought the largest Frontline (for 89-134# dogs) and divided the dose proportional to dog weight using a 10 ml burette. It has always worked fine.
My vet has a new receptionist/tech that refused to give me the large Frontline, saying that the dose cannot be effectively split because the “medicine” in it is a (non-soluble) solid that is dispersed in the carrier and one cannot be sure the dose is evenly proportioned.
This claim could only be applied to the Fipronil component, since both cyphenothrin and (S)-methoprene are both liquids at room temperature.
The liquid is clear and shows no sign of suspended solids, and nothing settles out of the solution, even after a couple of months of sitting. I mentioned that I was not aware that Frontline is a suspension, and she proceeded to re-explain it like I was stupid. What made me suspicious (besides that Frontline does not appear to have solids in it and nothing settles out, as well as the fact that the manufacturer’s instructions do not mention having to shake the tube before application), is that she seemed to have no clue what a “suspension” was when I used the term, and just kept ever more sternly reiterating her little speech verbatim like she was intimidated by the word “suspension”. ( A whopping 10 letters).
The solvent/carrier seems to be an alcohol or light oil (or a mixture). Being as the organic insecticides in Frontline are not water-soluble (and can withstand bathing/swimming of the dog), this is chemistry 101. It would make no sense to use a suspension in a non-solute liquid, since failure to shake the tube before application could leave much of the Fipronil behind in the vial (it is ~10% by weight of Frontline, so if undissolved it should be a visible amount).
However if the Fipronil were of extremely tiny grain size, it could stay in suspension just due to Brownian motion, but again I see no reason for it not to be in solution, especially since any solvent that dissolves the other two insecticides in Frontline should also dissolve Fipronil.
Anyone else heard claims of Fipronil being in suspension?
Nicely broken down!
Hi Steve,
Frontline is a solution NOT a suspension. Just check the MSDS. They’re free online.
Sounds like a fearfully ignorant receptionist. Maybe she’s confusing it with a different med? That could be really bad.
So, yeah, fipronil which dissolves very poorly in water, when used as a crop pesticide, is often a suspension for agriculture, but all Animal Health applications including Frontline dissolve it in organic solvents, and it is always in full solution for AH use.
Thus, Frontline is NOT a suspension. Frontline is a solution.
If you’re a tad vengeful, you could print out the Frontline MSDS and show her where it says it’s a solution not suspension. Maybe whack her on the nose with a rolled-up copy if she still doesn’t get it–um, just kidding,–a full print-out MSDS club might qualify as a lethal weapon. 🙂
Further, there are pet meds that ARE suspensions–pyrantel pamoate, e.g.–and they’re sold in multi-dose bottles. Pyrantel pamoate’s an oral roundworm med. Never seen it in individual doses. You just have to REALLY shake the bottle every time you measure out a dose. So her argument is thus rendered even more invalid.
She’s either ignorant or there’s profit reasons; or both.
So far as those whom claim ‘holistic eating will prevent a dog from getting heartworm’ – you are very wrong Raw food does NOT stop an infected mosquito from biting a dog. The raw food diet does NOT kill off the larvae from hatching and spreading through the blood stream. Heck, we beef up all our rescues by using pure salmon oil on their foods, that is an immunity boosting! and we only feed our dogs the best dry kibble, no corn in our food, no crap fillers, and we stick to using certain brands that we graded out like Canidae, and Fromms (for our puppies) and American Natural Premium. If we think a dog has allergies OR is suffering from mange, than they are put on grain free foods and yes, we dose them with Ivermectin – have to help them boost their immunity to get those mites back under control. Salmon oil is wonderful for that too!
And nothing works like a GOOD bath for fleas on a dog! all you need is Dawn dish soap (most say only the blue color works, but truly, it is about lathering up that doggy – or kitty! – and immobilizing the fleas, than rinsing them well, sending the fleas down the drain. YES! if heavy infected, you will see them shaken off and landing on walls, tiles, floor, etc. I have a spray that I use (only can buy from vet) and I bomb my bathroom with it after I have complete a round of baths. Any fleas in there will die off, and bathroom door remains closed for 24 hours,
You also need to wait until the fur is completely dry, and I am talking 24 hours to 48 hours before applying the flea/tick preventative, some vets say that 24 hours is suffice. And they cannot get baths/swim for same amount of time afterwards, so that they fully absorb that medication. you can poison a dog / cat if applying, than reapplying within weeks, so you must be careful! also CATS CANNOT HAVE DOG medicine or vice versa. The cats flea/tick preventative is made from another type of med plus the dosing is very different. I had a friend poison her cat by thinking she could save money, and unfortunately, she had to pay to have the cat hospitalized because it became very lethargic and was throwing up.
And our rescue has used other brands in an attempt to save money as well, we had whole transports (50+ dogs) come up all flea infected We do them no good by treating them so we only buy Frontline or Frontline Plus. Period. There are differences. Advantix has its advantages as well, but we are sticking to FP.
and as an aside for mange – demodex is on ALL mammals, humans too! it is when an animal is stressed or immune-compromised that the mites take over and begin feeding crazily, causing the hair to fall out. The mites live within the hair follicles, and keep on moving.
A healthy, stress free dog (and cat, etc) keeps the mites at bay by being healthy.
Steve, why waste your time on a receptionist? If you have been purchasing for years, just ask your vet to contain his help. I’ve had to do that before at vets, when the people behind the counter seem to think they know more than the vet. Also, why are you buying at vets? I’m certain you can purchase for MUCH less, just about anyplace else.
TC, Cats CAN use certain “dog” medications, but not all. I’ve been doing it for over a decade. Initially with the help of my vet. Frontline is one of those. Revolution is another. Most others, it’s a big no. It’s already been discussed above in GREAT detail. Read for information on how to do it correctly.
I will stick to what the local humane society as well as the cat rescues do and they do NOT advocate using canine flea/tick preventatives on felines. The chemical is not the same. And my friends cat was just one more reason why it does not work.
” also CATS CANNOT HAVE DOG medicine or vice versa. The cats flea/tick preventative is made from another type of med plus the dosing is very different. I had a friend poison her cat by thinking she could save money, and unfortunately, she had to pay to have the cat hospitalized because it became very lethargic and was throwing up. “
Somebody feeding kibble shouldn’t have an opinion on heartworms. You don’t know enough to feed your dog better, leave them on the edge of illness and think you know how a truly healthy dog can be. You are right about demodex though but you don’t realize that simply feeding kibble can cause an outbreak. I cured a dog just by improving it’s diet. It’s well known that highly processed foods aren’t healthy. That goes for people’s food and dog’s food too. Cooked to death kibble is never healthy and it’s just so evident in the number of dogs with gum problems in this day and age. My dogs never need their teeth cleaned. They haven’t gotten worms in years. Superior feeding can’t be trumped. Unless TC has actually compared raw fed dogs to kibble fed dogs he can’t know. Please wake up before you damage your dogs even more.
Oh, and it’s really not just diet. It’s a healthy lifestyle altogether, keeping your dogs away from pesticides, limiting vaccinations, plus the diet. Organic species appropriately fed dogs are vastly superior to what most people consider a good life for a dog. This means not only not putting pesticides on the dog but also not putting them in the yard and around the house.
And quit calling pesticides “preventatives”. They really are pesticides.
Again TC, you are spouting generalities with little specifics. What “dog medicine” was given to a cat? In what dosage? Human society is also very vague and does not speak for all of the animal community. And most rescue and “Humane societies” (which very from region to region) find themselves in combat against one another often. I’ll listen to the multitude of vets that have no problem with this, over a bureaucrat at a human society. The majority discourage the practice because many people are stupid and will not apply correctly. Or figure that if it’s alright to do it for this item, then I can do it for all. So that is one reason why something that is safe, is often told that it is not. I work in animal rescue and help run one now. And I explained to you that my vet was fine and even helps people save money by showing them how to do it. For Frontline, you are correct, the ingredients are different. But it actually LESS of the second ingredient, than with cats. So technically, if given the proper dosage, it should be safer, since they are receiving less of a chemical. :o) Revolution, on the other hand, is EXACTLY the same. You just need to dose correctly, based upon weight.
I believe this has ran it’s course. You have presented your case and I have presented mine. That is not the purpose of this group.
Wow what a heated argument …. I agree that feeding a dog a raw diet has nothing to do with flea prevention ! …
I used to give frontline and i bought the biggest dose and gave it to all my dogs using a luer lock syringe and any that was left over i plunged the needle in a blob of dried silicone to prevent evaporation and stored till the next month …
I love the idea for storing the leftover stuff in eppendorf tubes ! …
Now the fleas in my area have become somewhat immune to the frontline/ petarmour so i have begun using k9 advantage 11 for my german shepherd for 2 yrs now … I do the same thing for him and buy the big vials that have 4 ml and he gets 2 ml per application so one vial lasts him 2 months !
I got a chiuauhah puppy he is about 5 months now .. The vet gave me a sample of advantage 11 for him for dogs under 10 pounds … He was 2.3 pounds at the time ! So i bought a needle and pulled the .4 ml into it and gave him .1 and guess what the next morning no fleas ! And it lasted 6 weeks before i even saw another one on him and i would have seen them he sleeps with me …
I just purchased a box of the advantage 11 from an ebay seller ( who ive been purchasing k9 advantix 11 from for 2 yrs and my dad purchases his advantage 11 from ) ..in the dogs 55 lb and up size and i will put it in a vial and use as needed for my chiuahuah and my 3 cats as needed … Advantage 11 is one of the few flea meds that whether it be the dog packaging or the cat packaging it can be used for either cuz the ingredients are the same and at the same percentages you just have to dose the cat according to cat guidelines and the dog according to dog guidelines and with a cat you only put it at their neck not at their tail because a cat will lick it off and that will be deadly ! …
I will say i know that you cannot ! Use k9 advantix be it 1 or 11 on cats t all ! There is a reason it says k9 in the name ! It has a chemical in it that is toxic to cats !
Wanted to say the reason i use a different med for the big dog is because it repels ticks and misquitos…
Also on another subject i started buying about 2 yrs ago ivermectin .05 % from a website called JR Enterprises …its for heartguard … And is soooo much cheaper than buying heartguard from the vet ! … And if you look a lot of the heartguards the vets sell have ivermectin in them ! … Be careful if you have a border collie and some othe breeds have a genetic intolerance for them … Look that up if you decide to use ivermectin… My german shepherd does fine with it … Always research before you do anything on your own ….. I have been doing it for about 2 yrs … Before that i used to used the cattle injectable stuff for my big dogs …it was to hard to get a correct dose for the small ones …
I’m horrible at math. How many mil would I need for a 54lb dog? Thanks!
For those that choose to divide the Xtra-large dog dose for smaller pets, there are some concerns that I have found that you should be aware of.
Exposure to oxygen will break down fipronil at a fairly fast rate and exposure to moisture will break down even faster. Exposure to sunlight is the fastest.
What does this mean? Well if you divide up the doses into a larger vial, this will have oxygen and water in it from the atmosphere it is exposed to and in the container you store it in. The larger the container the more it is exposed to moister and oxygen. What should this mean to you is:
Store the chemical in the smallest container that will hold it. Don’t open the vial in humid environments. Use a dark container and keep it out of the sun light. Perhaps drawing the chemical in a syringe directly would be the best and then inject it into a air tight container that is just large enough to hold the volume intend to store. It is important that the container you keep it in is very air tight.
My biggest concern is if you allow light to come into contact with the Fipronil. It will break down very quickly when exposed to sunlight and the chemical the Fipronil degrades into is 10 times as toxic. Be careful and don’t expose it to sunlight. 😉
For the record Fipronil in dog medication is not the same as you find in other Pesticide formulation you find it in. The dog medication is likely much purer and their are other ingredients added specially designed for application to dogs and cats.
The old saying is true, always apply pesticides per the label & use properly labeled pesticides that are intended for your purpose. Messing around with things yourself can get you into trouble. There is a lot more to it than meets the eye. Even chemists would have to do a lot of research before they would want to try certain things and in most cases you can’t find the real data you want to make sure things are safe.
HTH
For more info on Fipronil see this link:
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/infoservices/pesticidefactsheets/toxic/fipronil.php
From it:
“The photodegradate of fipronil, MB46513, is about 10 times more acutely toxic to mammals than fipronil itself. The metabolite MB 461 is more highly toxic to birds, and the metabolites MB 46136 and MB 45950 are more highly toxic to freshwater invertebrates than fipronil itself (PAN 2000).”
Buy the Largest containers for the lowest price and DO THE MATH, save yourselves Money, FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS, your pets will be just fine…
Ditto what bigjohnson said……
Keeping all of our five cats and 2 dogs flea free on our budget was horrific before I discovered splitting the doses. Without the convenience of using the larger quantity we really couldn’t afford it. Buying Frontline at the vets was extremely expensive. We had a huge flea infestation years ago and it took months to get rid of them all. I buy the largest size Frontline on Ebay, divide it up and VOILA, they get the same treatment at a fraction of the cost. The boxes are still sealed and have not been tampered with. I’ve been doing this for at least 10 years. All our ‘children’ are fat, healthy and sassy. I must say this thread had me ROFL at a few of the posts. 🙂
I foster cats and dogs for a rescue organisation and found this article because I was weighing up what size of Revolution to get for our 3 current foster kittens. They probably weigh about 2kgs each, the larger dose goes up to 7.5kg. So I can treat all 3 with one dose! Won’t even have to bother storing any after I open it.
Lin, great idea. Though at that weight and I imagine age, I typically hold off until older, unless they are infested or other circumstances force it upon you. Lord knows their little bodies are going through so much with all the vaccinations, so I try to hold off on any more toxic shock to the body for as long as possible. For the average size adult cat, 0.3 mL for Revolution is all you need. With them weighing in under 5lbs, if I did my conversion to lbs correctly, you can use a bit less. Also, while I have used Revolution in the past. I would NOT use it every month. Also, you certainly do not need to use it every 30 days. At the very least, give it every 6 weeks. There is no reason an animal needs to be dewormed along with killing flees, etc. EVERY month. But that is another topic and thus not appropriate for this discussion (hint, hint). 😉 Just something to think about for future use. Good luck!
It’s curious to me that all the arguments against this plan all come down to one basic emotion: fear.
“If you’re not actually buying the right thing, or it’s expired, or it’s diluted, or it’s questionable from Mexico, it will cost you a lot of money.”
Sure, if you stupidly buy from an eBay seller in China that’s a real possibility. But nobody says you have to get your meds on eBay. Does anyone really think that Amazon is selling major name brand prescription meds that are counterfeit, but doesn’t realize it? Not bloodly likely. They are sourcing it from the manufacturer, just like your local vet. As far as splitting doses, that’s just math. It’s been done since the beginning of time by doctors and vets and patients and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as you a) can do math and b) are careful in the splitting.
The original article is a great idea. Great post. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve been doing this for the last few years. I have a 17 lb dog and I buy the 89 to 132 lb Frontline plus. It’s the same medication as the one for smaller dogs, just a larger dose. I measure .67 ml on the syringe and put it on her the same way. I buy it from Pet Meds and I get 6 doses from each applicator. So what I was paying for 3 doses, I now get 18 doses. I told my uncle about this because he was complaining about the cost of flea medication for his two dogs. He’s really saving money. He was paying almost $40 a month from his vet. Now he pays about $80 a year. My dog is my baby, and if it didn’t work, regardless of savings, I wouldn’t do it.
This report seems to summarize the average veterinarian and manufacturer positions on splitting flea treatment dosages (I disagree and will briefly explain.):
“Never use spot-ons for dogs on cats, and never use spot-ons for large dogs on small dogs. It happens that some users want to save money buying large spot-ons for treating smaller dogs (or even cats!) twice or more times. The risk of overdosing is considerable, either due to erroneous calculations or to unskilled manipulation. In addition, dog medicines may sometimes contain ingredients that are toxic to cats.”
In other words, you do really need to know what you’re doing. The implied low opinion of people’s intelligence is a little off-putting. Nowhere in the whole report does it state there will problems unless you screw up–that is, “due to erroneous calculations or to unskilled manipulation. In addition, dog medicines may sometimes contain ingredients that are toxic to cats.”
Source: http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2671&Itemid=2948
Essentially the same thing is parroted in multiple reports.
OK. IF you’re kind of stupid, don’t try this at home. If you’re trying to get by on disability income, have a modicum of intelligence and can measure carefully and will invest in a few syringes, then what’s the harm? Except to other people will not make as much money from you. I feel their pain, but a lot of folks are really hurting financially, and maybe their pain should count, too.
Cat rescue groups are notoriously underfunded and use this technique all the time. Often with initial training from a sympathetic vet. So they do know what they’re about. The alternative is animals and homes suffering flea infestations because so many Just. Don’t Have. Enough. Money. Harm reduction is good, even if a big corporation takes a little hit to their tender pocket. I feel more sympathy to vet’s, whose concern is obvious, but… well, I have not run into too many vets trying to survive on less than $900 or so per month. Folks like that are trying as hard as they can, and every penny counts. This technique can mean the difference between genuine suffering and continuing to scrape by.
Not all of us are “unskilled” or make dosage mistakes. The math is really not very hard. Some rescue sites will walk you through it, as have some posts here.
Summary: Yes. You do need to know what you are about.
Nuff’ said.
People people people. If your IQ is over ten, you can use simple common sense on this. Because the maker cant supply dose tubes for an animal of every weight, they must generalize. That means serious over dose. Now, we animal owners are usually not chemists or scientisits so we dont know for sure what a triple dose will do. At the VERY LEAST its just a waste of meds and the company (is it Bayer?) sells a LOT more stuff that way. It doesnt even take a calculator to divide the ml by the weight of its largest animal and then know the ‘by the pound’ dose for smaller ones. I cant even believe that anyone (except Bayer) would say that useing partial doses, especially if SMALLER then other doses, could be in any way harmful. So what do we have? Accurate by the pound doses. Less WASTE instead putting the entire generalized tube on the smallest dog listed. Weve been in 4-H for years and know breeders and plenty of owners. All of us are doing this now. Hey–get this, all of you—weve noticed that the newest batches of tubes now have a slightly larger hole on the tube top!! Our syringes used to be snug but now they are not, which makes it hard to do without spilling. Bayer knows people are doing this. Coincidense? Hmmmm? Think about it–have you also experienced this?
Hey Marvin:
Here’s how we get every drop of Frontline/Stronghold out of a 2 ml tube (which contains enough for five cat doses of 0.4 ml each.)
Use a medium heavy gauge needle (like 22 gauge to 25 gauge) with a 3 ml Luer lock type syringe. (this is a standard and cheap.)
Open the tube so liquid & air can flow, but keep the tube upright and the lid on loosely.
Then, use the needle to carefully and gently pierce one side of the tube at the bottom by one of of the two “corners.” Not where the crimp is, but close as you can reasonably get. Draw all the liquid out slowly and carefully up into the 3 ml syringe. Angle the bottle as needed to get all the liquid. Using this technique, we now get every single drop out of the two ml. tube.
Using the 3 ml syringe then makes it easy to transfer and accurately measure out exactly 0.4 ml to a 1 ml insulin syringe (needle yanked out) which is the cat dosage of selamectin. These 1 ml syringes are marked finely enough that 0.4 ml is easy to accurately measure vs. 0.5 ml. So all five cats or kittens always get dosed from one tube now during horrendous summer flea season, and everyone’s happier and healthier. We usually don’t need to dose during the winter months, so everyone gets a break then.
Always remember, when doing math, it’s how much of the chemical needed you first calculate per dose/ml. Sometimes concentrations are different for cat and dog formulations of the same substance that are safe for both, or even between different sizes of dog.
BTW, if there are a few extra doses, storing a tightly sealed, capped Luer lock syringe with the liquid pushed up high enough to leave no air spaces, and in the dark at recommended temps. should prevent any spoilage until it’s time for the next dose.
Hope that helps.
My vet recommended this a long time ago I’ve been doing this for at least 15 years. First frontline then frontline plus. But for the last 2 years my dogs love the swimming pool and frontline isn’t working as long in the summer so we now use comfortis in the summer so I purchase the larger breed size for my German shepherd and Bernese Mt Dog and split it in half for my mini Aussies so a 6 pack isn’t just a six pack for me it’s a 8 pack. Guess I could buy the super size one and make it last longer?? 😉
i need advise. i was told i could purchase the large dog size advantage II for my very small dogs. i just had to split the dosage to their size. Im really nervous about this. the best that i could figure was that they each were to be given 0.4 ml EACH. this was based on the Advantage II (Large dog) size. my vet will not give me this information because they want to sell you the more expensive packages, but I’m told that you can split. I’m concerned i didn’t measure correctly. i have 3 dogs, full grown. one yorkie is 7 years old and weighs 3 lbs, another yorkie 9 years old and weighs 8 lbs, and a 13 year old maltese who weighs 4 lbs. i ended up giving the smallest yorkie and the maltese 0.2 ML’s and the larger yorkie 3 ml’s. I was just too afraid i would overdose them, can anyone help me please.
I have used this site for Frontline Plus for dogs splitting the dosage info before with much success!!! Well now I may have more money saving tips for those interested in keeping your families pest free for less$$$$!!!
It is called PETACTION Plus for DOGS, of course it is the 89-132 lbs. the active ingredients are exactly as Frontline Plus, purchased at Wal*mart for 3 doses $24.83
I use one dose on my 100lb German Shepherd, then i split one for my 35 lb. Chow pup (1.34ml) and a 7lb. cat(0.5ml), with plenty to spare. I use medicine cups and old infant medicine droppers I saved when my kids were babies. What ever is left i put a plastic lid that fits perfectly over the cup to use in 4 weeks. No bad reactions, and best of all no fleas, ticks, ear mites, mange, tapeworms, YUK!!!
(((HAPPY TAILS)))
COULD I GET SOME HELP HERE PLEASE. YOU ALL SOUND LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING WITH THIS PET ARMOR.. CAN I SPLIT 23-44 LBS APPLICATION INTO 3 DOSES. MY DOG WIEGHS APPROX 8 LBS 8X3=24. WAIT MABE EVEN 4 DOSES.
THIS IS OKAY TO DO RIGHT. ?
LONG TIME SINCE IVE HAD A DOG…HE IS PRCIOUS TO ME AND DONT WANT ANY MORE VET BILLS . YOU GET IT
Let me just warn you on this: My experience is that Frontline is completely ineffective and one of my dogs contracted Lyme as a result.
Problem is, Frontline doesn’t claim to kill ticks for 24+ hours, which is enough time for them to attach and infect your dog with Lyme disease. I have two dogs, applied frontline religiously every month at the full doses (unlike the recommendation to split, per above) and I would constantly pick ticks off my dogs.
Unfortunately, I missed a tick on one dog one day, only to find it a couple days later when it was engorged. He developed Lyme disease as a result. Thankfully, it did not affect his kidneys. Keep in mind he’s only 60lbs and was on the 88lbs dose, so I’d guess using less would make this even less effective than it already appears.
I’ve since switched to Preventic collars and have yet to find a single tick on my dogs, let alone attached. This doesn’t work for fleas though, so I just gave Bravecto a try starting last month.
Great tips on saving money for pet owners! The cost really can add up, especially on preventative medications and things like Frontline. Thanks!
Last year was the first time I felt like nothing I could throw at getting control of fleas on my 3 dogs ,3 cats ferret and potbelly pig!I used to just buy the frontline for the exlarge dog and split it between all my animals but for some reason it seems the fleas have built some kind of immunity to the flea meds …any suggestions ??
I don’t have any dark glass vials but I have plenty of dark pill containers you get from the pharmacy when meds are filled. Can these be used?
If the pill containers you are talking about are plastic, I would not advise using, unless it’s just for the day while you treat animals. They should be glass. You can find them all over the place for cheap. On Amazon is probably the easiest online. But go to your local health Food store, they typically have empty bottles like this. People often use them for putting essential oils in at the store, but if you know a place that does the oils, then that would be a good place to look. Medical supply store might have something also.
A friend of mine volunteered at the local animal shelter and said these techniques are used on a regular basis with the blessing of the vet. WHERE you buy it, whole different story. If you find it cheap you WILL get ripped off ., that is a promise. Crooks and lowlifes sell any knock off (fake) that makes money.
That’s an interesting point, and I just checked that both Frontline Plus and PetArmor Plus are available “shipped and sold by Amazon” as opposed to a third-party vendor.
Bigger question on Amazon: don’t they commingle their inventory? I think I read somewhere that they don’t separate their sold by Amazon inventory from their fulfilled by Amazon, and so you could buy from Amazon or a third party seller and the item comes out of the same bin. I’m really concerned about counterfeit goods from Amazon.
I find it interesting that we have people focused on proper dosing of pets in relation to actual weight and not just a weight category, but that no argument has been made here for proper dosing of humans. When you get a prescription from the pharmacy, are they giving you a specific dose according to your specific weight? They aren’t, but they should be. Let’s push for improvement across the board, pets and humans alike.
Make absolutely sure you do NOT put dog flea preventative on cats! It will make the cat very sick and can even kill it! If you have dogs and cats, make sure you keep their flea preventatives separate and don’t use the same vials or syringes.
For any of you that commented that splitting the dose is “just unsafe” you really have to use a little common sense here! First, the Humane Society gave me the exact dose per pound on a print out years ago, they understand people are on a budget but more important they are the “humane” society because they want safe humane treatment for animals! Would you give your 89 pound child THE SAME DOSE OF MEDICATION THAT YOU WOULD GIVE a 132 pound child??? That’s the same dose for a child one and a half times larger than the 89 pound child! This is essentially OVERDOSING! Well, another point if you didn’t have insurance would you want to pay for he medicine for the child that is 150% the size of your child when you could be paying a fraction of the cost for the “PROPER “dose? So in reality, following the instructions is the unsafe and costly option, a way for the pet pharmaceuticals to gouge us! Lastly with margins this wide if you had an 89 pound dog, the safer and less expensive bet would be to buy the 45-88lb because the exact difference in volume of product per pound is literally.03004545ml (simplified .03ml) and a dogs weight fluctuates all day as they eat and drink so really??? I’ve always bought the largest product in a 3 or 4 count at Costco I weigh myself I get off the scale and pick up my dog and calculate the weight difference to get my dogs weight and multiply by .0304545 (per pound) to get the total ml for that dog. One vial usually covers all 5 of my dogs and I’ll hook up my neighbors little pup too! Since I pay about 35$ for the pack and we only have fleas during the Sumer months one packet will last me and my neighbor (6dogs) 2 years that’s less than $3 a dog per year! It makes financial sense and I’m not over medicating my dogs and we have never had a flea problem I have never picked one flea off of any of my dogs and we live in California, pretty much unheard of! Just saying and I gave u the formula!
Do you have any advice on two medicine nitenpyram?
I have several pets, both cats and dogs, and I know it’s given to both. I didn’t want to have to buy packages of the different sizes. Although I know it can be split per pound, I don’t know the exact ratio for each of them if I just bought the larger size capsules or tablet and divided them.
Any informed Insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hi
Can you keep the unused amount in the pipette?
I have been using the Anvantix 10-25kg on 3 dogs for years, but unfortunately I lost one of them recently :(, so I now end up with 1ml too much 🙁
I live in a paralysis tick area in Australia, so I use it every 2 weeks in summer.
I normally draw it out with a syringe, so the amount that is left in the pipette is clean.
Any advice appreciated 🙂
I’ve been doing this for YEARS with Frontline Plus.
Can you tell me, is the dosage for PetArmor the same in ml?
Thanks!
Can you do the same thing with chewables, cutting them in half or fourths? I have been using Brevacto on my 13lb dog.
DO NOT use Advantage for dogs on cats. I work at an animal shelter and have watched a beautiful orange family cat die in convulsions from dog Advantage mistakenly used on their cat. It contains permethrin, fatal to cats.
The same is not true for Frontline Plus, but it must be measured very accurately to not overdose a cat.